Early Signs of Perimenopause and How to Manage Them

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Hatty: Know your why, because when it does get difficult, everybody goes, oh, it's really hard, it's really hard. Yeah, it is. It's really hard, actually. There'll be a period of time where it's not, and then it is. Know why you're doing it, and that will keep you through the difficult parts.

Nikkiey: What is going on, everybody? Welcome back to The WarriorBabe Show. Today I'm really excited because I'm joined by Hatty. She is a certified menopause consultant, she's a fitness expert, and she's also the host of the Real Menopause Talk podcast, which I was actually on recently too. We had the pleasure of an awesome conversation together, and now she's here on The WarriorBabe Show. She was formerly in TV and film production, and she's known for her dedicated work supporting women through the perimenopause and menopause journey, helping them optimize their health and navigate what I like to call a transformative phase of life with confidence. So, Hatty, welcome to the show. Super excited to have you here.

Hatty: Nikkiey, thank you so much for having me. I am thrilled to be here, and it was a pleasure to host you on Real Menopause Talk. So I'm very grateful for the invitation back. Thank you very much indeed.

Nikkiey: Awesome. Hatty, I want the audience to get to know you a little bit before we dive into everything related to perimenopause and menopause. For those who may not be familiar with you or your work, can you share a little about your journey and how you became a menopause consultant and fitness expert?

Hatty: Exercise came to me very late in life. I was the person who would rather drive around the block five times, 25 times, to get closer to the front door than park up the street and walk 500 yards. I'm glad to say I'm not that person anymore. I'd rather park five blocks away and walk. I've really discovered I love walking. I have a dog now. We've had him for five years, and I can't imagine not doing an early morning dog walk. That's become very much part of my life.

Originally, yes, I was a film and TV producer, mostly advertising, a little bit of film work, TV work, music videos, that kind of thing. Then I became a single mom and life changed. I was never on my priority list, and I became ill. I'm not really sure how, but I had Epstein-Barr virus for quite some time. At one point I remember sitting at the bottom of the garden thinking, I'm so exhausted. I can't even play with my kids. Getting upstairs was a real effort. At that point I was 41, but I felt like I was 241.

So I started investigating how to take care of myself so that I could look after everybody else better, and I discovered Bikram yoga, the really hot one, about 35 degrees Celsius. I'm not quite sure what that is in Fahrenheit.

Nikkiey: No idea. That's okay. We know it's really hot.

Hatty: Hot, high humidity. I tried that for a year and things began to improve. I loved it so much that I went to the Gold Coast in Australia to qualify as an instructor. Then I went to Colombia to study yin. And then I discovered the gym. It took me about six months to get used to the environment. Being a middle-aged woman surrounded by younger men, it was an environment I didn't automatically feel comfortable in. But I loved it so much that it was the first thing I knew I would want to be doing, hopefully, for the rest of my life. And I have been 100% consistent, going four, five, six times a week, because I love it. So it's not purely for aesthetics. It's for the mental health, for the physical health, and I've noticed my health has transformed since doing it.

Because I love the gym so much, I also qualified as a personal trainer and found that many of my clients were midlife women. We would chat in between sets. They'd talk to me about how they were feeling, and a lot of the time menopause would come up. Even though I was a little older by then, maybe 44, I didn't really know very much about it. So I went off and studied it under a wonderful woman called Journey Burrell and got my certification. Even through the process of learning about it, I was able to serve my clients better.

At one point I was finally able to turn the mirror on myself and realize that I was experiencing all these symptoms as well, and it was all down to perimenopause. There was a lot going on in life at that time. My mother was very unwell, my children were experiencing various difficulties, and I think my husband might have been changing jobs as well. So I put it down to stress. But it turned out perimenopause was at work. By looking at myself and working with my clients, I was able to discover simple life tweaks that have made it a very smooth transition.

Nikkiey: Beautiful, Hatty. I selfishly got to know a little more about you through you sharing your journey and what got you to where you are today. First of all, can you let everybody know where you're from? Because your accent is beautiful, and I know people are going to wonder.

Hatty: Thank you. I'm born and bred London, England. As far as my situation is concerned, I'm married, second husband, second time lucky, with two daughters, one who is 18 and one who is about to turn 13, three cats, and a dog called Dennis.

Nikkiey: Oh, Dennis. Stop. That's such a great name. Beautiful, Hatty. You said a lot of things there that I know the audience can totally resonate with, especially being a single mom, not putting yourself first, recognizing that things need to change, and also being scared of the environment inside the gym. I'm really excited to unpack that. I want to know why you lit up when you started talking about the gym. You were like, I love it. So I have a question following that.

But I also want the audience to stick around to the end of the episode, because there's something Hatty did that's pretty freaking cool at her age. You're 51 now?

Hatty: I am, yes.

Nikkiey: Okay, so there's something pretty cool that she did that we're going to talk about at the end. It's probably going to inspire a lot more people who listen to this podcast. We're going to get into all the things. You mentioned simple strategies for perimenopause, and I'm really excited to talk about those with you. But first, you lit up. Why do you love the gym so much?

Hatty: I have always questioned whether I am strong, and everything that encompasses, mentally, physically, emotionally, and often thought that I wasn't very strong and wasn't disciplined. I was uncomfortable in that environment because it was very physical, and I overcame that. I learned that I can be strong. I'm so much stronger than I thought, and I believe I'm still stronger than I think I am. If you're on the leg press with a certain number of kilos above you, I think I need to get over certain limiting self-beliefs so I can push more. I'm sure many of us have that.

It was about getting over being in an uncomfortable environment and thinking, I don't care what anybody else thinks. Not disrespectfully, but why would they be bothered that I'm doing shoulder presses or dumbbell rows or whatever? Nobody cares, in the nicest possible way. They're doing their thing. And when I'm doing my thing, I'm not noticing who's deadlifting what, unless perhaps it's a supremely impressive woman who is really badass strong. Then I will notice and give a little applause if necessary or if welcome. But nobody cares. So that was a huge hurdle. And there's just something about lifting weights that makes me feel really, really good.

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Oh, that's beautiful. More importantly, I think what you highlighted there is the internal side of what you learned about yourself just by stepping into something uncomfortable. I can personally resonate with that. When I first started my fitness journey and walked into the gym, the only thing I wanted to do was something familiar, which was cardio. I'd go up to the treadmills and stay in my lane. But it's really the internal limiting beliefs, like you mentioned, and the self-dialogue that goes on in our own heads. By just going in, doing the thing, and putting yourself in the discomfort, you start to recognize it's not that bad, people aren't actually watching me, and nobody really freaking cares. Once you take action on the things that are uncomfortable, you start recognizing that those stories are just stories, and you start to rewrite them. I think the way you explained that was really beautiful, because it's not just about the physical aspect of going into the gym. The gym can also help build strength within yourself. So I love that.

Let's go on to menopause, because it's such a topic of conversation in both of our worlds. A lot of women who listen to these podcasts are in menopause on their journey. So I want to talk about the myths and misunderstandings that surround this topic. In your experience, what are some of the most common misconceptions about menopause that women face, and how do these myths influence their health journeys and the choices they make along the way?

Hatty: I think a lot of it is driven by social media, and it depends which direction you look as to which myth, or, if you're fortunate, which fact you might discover. At the moment, the ones in my peripheral vision are focusing very much on HRT. Now, I am not a doctor. I'm not medically trained. I cannot advise on hormone therapy and would never even pretend to. However, having spoken to a large number of doctors and fellow women in perimenopause and menopause, it does have a place in your options.

Nikkiey: In your toolkit. Absolutely. I totally agree with you, 110%.

Hatty: For some women it is transformative. It can alleviate all kinds of symptoms, from joint aches to depression, hot flashes, sweats, certainly the vasomotor symptoms, and some psychological ones. It can change their lives. However, I don't feel it suits everybody. I tried it quite early on and it simply didn't agree with me. Will I try it again? Maybe. I'm not ruling out going back. I've spoken to women who've tried it two or three times, and the third time they really got on with it. For the first two, either the dose was wrong or the method was wrong. Sometimes you have pills, sometimes gels, sometimes patches or creams, or a combination. So finding the right practitioner to support you in trying different methods is really crucial. That's not easy, finding the right person, but it has a place, 100%.

Also, I don't believe it is the silver bullet that many people wish it to be. If there were a pill to cure a disease instantly, or to make us all feel and look the way we want in our bodies instantly, amazing. But unfortunately it doesn't exist. Bearer of bad news. Very, very dull. But most things that are worthwhile take time, and it will come down to diet, exercise and general lifestyle habits. It's not sexy. It's not overnight. It's not an instant fix. But I don't believe HRT is an instant fix either. Can it be part of your toolkit? Absolutely. For some women it can't be, because of previous health implications. And many women choose not to use it. So every standpoint, every choice, is 100% valid.

Which I also feel is wound into the whole myth around menopause and perimenopause: that you have to do X, Y or Z. You don't. You have agency over your body. It is your choice. I would absolutely advocate certain lifestyle choices: stress management, sleep hygiene, good whole foods, along with the chocolate cake if it makes you happy, just not the chocolate cake on its own all the time. And exercise, particularly strength training, because whether we're in perimenopause or not, from the age of 30 our muscle can begin to decline, and far more rapidly than any of us would like. It also applies to men. All humans can benefit from strength training, particularly in our modern-day society.

So I suppose the final myth, if there's a top three, is that strength training is not for women. That it will, and I know you and I have discussed this, make you bulky, make you look like a man, and that you shouldn't lift anything too heavy. But as we talked about, you lift heavy things in daily life, whether it's furniture or grocery shopping or children. Suitcases, lifting things above your head, lifting boxes. It's about maintaining the ability to do that. And movement, not only strength training but stretching, is really valuable as well. It's critical to longevity and to being able to actually live and enjoy your life for as long as you possibly can.

Nikkiey: Well said, Hatty. I agree with a lot of what you said there. I really respect your mentality on HRT in terms of it not being the be-all and end-all. A lot of people look for that one magic pill that's going to help. It's not, you are in menopause, this is what you need to do. It's, you're in menopause, and you need to advocate for yourself, which you said so beautifully. There are these strategies and tools out there. Try things, but don't be so single-minded that this one thing is going to get you to a certain result or make you feel better. Like you said, you tried it and it didn't work out, but you're not completely closed to the idea, because maybe it's about the right dose, the right doctor, the right person. That's also important. You have to do your research and understand what may or may not work specifically for you. So I really respect that. I also love...

Hatty: Sorry. Yes, and symptoms change over the period of perimenopause and menopause. You are looking at potentially four to 12 years, and nothing in that time is going to remain static. So something that works for you in the beginning might need an adjustment in the middle and at the end, or maybe multiple times.

Nikkiey: Totally, totally. And highlighting the strength training aspect, you and I talked about that on your podcast. When you're 30 or in your mid-thirties, every decade your muscle mass declines by anywhere upwards of 3 to 8%. Science is science and studies are studies. Strength training is what provides the most resistance to our muscles and bones and makes us stronger. So it's so important to have it as part of the exercise component. It can't just be boot camps. Yoga is great. I know you're a yoga instructor. I do yoga. But you also need to do other things to make the body strong.

And what was the other thing I wanted to highlight? Oh, you mentioned those three things. I want to bring it to the mindset aspect really quick, because people talk about menopause like it's the doom years. I've heard that. Have you ever heard that comment?

Hatty: I have, yeah. It's not a positive thing.

Nikkiey: No, it's not a positive thing at all. But women carry that belief, that story, that narrative, into it, and then it totally influences the way they move through their journey in menopause. So what's your perspective when you hear that? How would you walk somebody through it if they said, Hatty, I'm going through the doom years of my life, there's no going back? A lot of people settle on what they hear: well, it just is the way it is now. So what would you say?

Hatty: I would really beg them not to look at it as the doom years. I do understand that in some areas, if you're over 24, you're past it. That's it. Over, finished. You may as well sit in the corner and forget about it. So if you hit 40, oh my goodness, 50, I'm sorry, you should really be in the corner in the shadows by now. I choose to dismiss that out of hand. Life is very different from my twenties and thirties, and arguably I'm getting more space in it to do the things I want.

Something that matches up with not caring what people think in the gym is that I don't really care what people think about my choices either. Again, with due respect, but if they don't like what I'm doing, as long as it's not harmful to anybody, that's okay. They don't have to like it. I do. It's my life. So I would really say to people, your life is not over. It's not the doom years. Arguably it's the beginning of the best part of your life, because you know yourself better. You know your limitations, you know your capabilities and strengths, and you can really lean into them.

For those of us who have children, they're beginning to grow up and maybe move out. Maybe not. Admittedly there are challenges, because maybe you have younger children and aging parents and you're caught caring for both. That is deeply challenging. And yet you still know yourself, or can get to know yourself better, and can decide how you want to design the rest of your life. You've been working for a large number of years, for the most part, and you've probably still got a large number of working years ahead of you. At 40 or 50, all being well, we might have another 30, 40, maybe even 50 years ahead of us.

If you're hitting perimenopause, the average age, and I'm just going to use average because it's easy, nobody's average, is 41. And the average age to actually reach menopause is 51, 52, sometimes 55, depending on the studies you look at. Life shouldn't be over at that point. So rather than it being the doom years, find out how you want the rest of your life to go. This can be a process. It's not going to be, okay, I'll sit down and write a shopping list of things I want. But really think: what do I enjoy? What brings me joy in my life? It'll be a different list from 20 years ago. That's fine.

It might include doing laundry, because that's peaceful, meditative time. It might include travel. It might include real adventure, hiking to the top of Mount Everest or another mountain. It can be literally anything you want. It could be walking the dog, eating food with friends, learning a new language. So work out what you enjoy, and then try to find space, little by little, for a daily joy. That could easily be laundry or the dog. Then perhaps a weekly joy. Perhaps that's learning to cook one evening a week, whether online or in a class with other people. And then a monthly joy, because we need to bring joy into our lives. There's an awful lot of world strife. There are world challenges in every direction right now. So we need joy. Instead of doom, push that out and find the things that bring you pleasure, simple and complex, and then weave them in.

Nikkiey: Beautiful. I love that. First of all, you gave me full-body chills when you said these are the most beautiful years for women as they transition into perimenopause or menopause. Because at this point you do know yourself a heck of a lot more, or you have the ability to learn more about yourself as you go through these years. So I think writing a different narrative, as you mentioned, and finding shifts in mindset or things people can do to bring more joy into their lives is really important too.

Along with the doom thing, while we're on this topic, are there others you want to bring to the surface that you've observed with the mental side as people navigate this midlife transition? What attitudes toward aging have you observed, second to the doom thing? Or is that really what you hear the most when you're working with women? I want to make sure people leave this podcast thinking, oh yeah, I do think that way. You're giving them some mental shifts to help them, but maybe there are other narratives going on in their brains.

Hatty: There can be all sorts of things that are hangovers from growing up in the '70s, '80s and '90s, that women have a certain place in society generally. I would urge them to dismiss those, just as many of us have been trying to dismiss certain situations. We want more freedom over our bodies as women. General human rights have improved, I hope, for the most part, since the '70s. So there's a lot we've been brought up and led to believe, and it's hard to shift some of it. Certainly much of that is in diet culture: that we as women should look a certain way, be a certain size, behave a certain way and even speak a certain way.

Again, I would urge people to challenge those. If they make them happy, that's one thing. But if they're not happy to sit silently and neatly, then perhaps they shouldn't. Perhaps this is an opportunity to find their voice and find other ways of expressing themselves that give them fulfillment. I feel very much that in midlife we still need purpose, and that's where a lot of the doom can come in. If you've changed your job or given up your job to care for family, sometimes there isn't as much fulfillment. Even stopping work means there's less purpose to the day. I'm not saying everybody needs traditional work by any stretch, but sometimes that structure can be really helpful. So find your purpose. That could be a dramatic career change, but finding purpose and something that gets you out of bed happily in the morning is going to be really important for your mental well-being.

The other thing, I suppose, is the image of the midlife woman that we've had throughout advertising and marketing. Shedding that, for many of us, is incredibly liberating. Certainly when I look into my menopause world and bubble, there's nobody who conforms to that. We're all refusing to sit and wear lavender in the shady corner. But if you do feel that's how you should be, again, have a think and challenge your own beliefs. Maybe you'll find a chink in the armor there and something that can bring you purpose and pleasure.

Nikkiey: Beautiful. Some great insights there, Hatty. Thank you. The main thing I took away was the hangovers: the stories and beliefs and the things we think we have to be or do or look like. But we don't. Challenge it. What does it mean for you? What does it look like for you? Is that what you want to be, or do you want to be something different? Go toward what you want. Find purpose and joy in what you want. Beautiful insights.

Let's transition to perimenopause. You mentioned it earlier when you were sharing your story. You were dealing with a lot of stress, but there could also have been symptoms that you didn't recognize as perimenopause. It's very challenging for women as they transition into it, because symptoms can overlap with life challenges and life changes. So what are some key early signs women should look out for so they can best prepare themselves physically, emotionally and mentally for the transition?

Hatty: Often if you visit your doctor, they'll first ask about your menstrual cycle. Yes, that obviously changes and eventually ceases when you reach the day that marks menopause. But it's very rarely the first thing women notice. There are very subtle changes as you enter perimenopause. So I would urge anybody, really, but especially anybody pre-perimenopause, to track, track, track your cycle in as much detail as you possibly can. There are so many apps available. I've only ever used the free version of one. I haven't paid for it. I've just tracked my days and a few symptoms, and then I can refer back to it. It's simple, free and readily available to the majority of people. Track so you know what's going on.

Because the subtlety in perimenopause might be as little as a day's difference in your cycle. If you're busy, you might put that down to travel or to being busy. You might not even notice. Using averages, if you're used to a 28-day cycle, suddenly it's 27, then 28, then 26, then 28, 28, 28, or 29. It can be so subtle and so erratic. But it's not the first thing.

The first thing, on the whole, is going to be sleep changes and sleep disturbances, whether that's getting to sleep or waking up in the middle of the night. It can be a brief wake-up, or it can be waking up and lying there with your brain whirring. Really helpful at 2 a.m. Between 1 and 3 is quite often the critical time for waking, and that will be spiked by cortisol, which you don't want at that time of night. In the morning, yes, great, that's what gets us out of bed. But not in the middle of the night. So sleep disruption often comes first. Again, it's easy to mix up with stress. If you've got a lot going on in life, sleep can be disrupted. But it's something to pay attention to.

Skin changes. Skin often becomes drier. Sometimes you get breakouts, which are completely unexpected. Maybe you went through your teenage years with beautifully clear skin and suddenly you have the occasional breakout. Or maybe you were a teenager who struggled, and suddenly it comes back and you're like, I thought I was through this. So breakouts, and skin changes in terms of dryness, and not just your face. It could be all over: hands, legs, and vaginal dryness as well, not necessarily early in perimenopause, but certainly toward the later stages.

So sleep, skin, and digestive issues, which can occasionally happen too. Sometimes you've been used to, say, gluten or dairy, and that can be disrupted. Just very subtle changes in your body. Changes in your circadian rhythm: you might want to get up earlier, or you might be more exhausted. Fatigue is a big one. They're all things to look out for.

Late perimenopause is really denoted by your menstrual cycle again: within eight to ten months, having a seven-day disruption. So with an average of 28, let's say it's then 35, then 28. If that happens twice within eight to ten months, then you're most likely in late perimenopause. And menopause is the day when you haven't had a period for 365 consecutive days. Then that supposedly stops for good. Symptoms might not, though. They can carry on for even six years afterward, depending on your lifestyle and how you manage it.

So look after your key foundation stones, such as sleep, stress management, nutrition and strength training, and really put yourself on that priority list. Make sure you have time for yourself, time to wind down, time to bring yourself joy and pleasure. Those are going to set you up.

Nikkiey: Amen. I've even heard the stat that perimenopause starts around 10 years before you even hit menopause.

Hatty: Yep. It can even be 12 years. It depends. We also have ethnic backgrounds to consider. For our Black, Latina and Asian counterparts, our women of color, it can begin as early as four years before our white counterparts.

Nikkiey: Oh, wow.

Hatty: Not always, but it's very possible and quite likely, for all sorts of reasons I won't go into here because that's a huge conversation. So if it starts four years early, it can then go on for 12 years.

Nikkiey: Wow. Hearing all the things you were talking about, I'm thinking I personally need to start being aware of what may be changing and shifting so I can set myself up for a good transition.

That leads me to my next question. Menopause brings on these significant changes, mentally and physically, that you just explained. You mentioned earlier that you found simple life hacks and really figured it out for yourself. So in your work, what strategies have you found most effective for women to manage the mental side of menopause, like mood swings or the emotional stress they take on?

Hatty: It's very individual for each person, because mental health can be at all different stages. I often visit workplaces and talk to them about strategies to manage as well. Really, it comes down to stress management first and foremost, and that can look very different for different people depending on how much time they're willing to devote to it and how much time they have available.

But to make it applicable to everybody: in moments of stress, do something as simple as a breathing exercise. I used to sniff at this a lot. I was very dismissive and thought, oh goodness, it's just breathing, can it really have an effect? But you can do it on the tube or the subway, on a train, in your office, almost facing clients. Right now I'll do it with you, just focusing on my breath.

Nikkiey: Exactly.

Hatty: Four counts in. Hold for two. Six counts out. Nobody needs to know. That's instantly going to calm your nervous system so you can relax out of intense anxiety. It might take a few goes. I tried it on the subway the other day, about to go into a very stressful situation, and it really helped me. So breathwork. And with middle-of-the-night waking, again, concentrate on your breathing. It slows your heart rate down, and being mindful of heart health is really critical at midlife as well.

So, tiny little details. Meditation for literally two minutes a day. I know I spend more than two minutes doom scrolling on Instagram. I'd really like not to, but I haven't kicked that yet. So everybody has two minutes. Maybe you're waiting for the kettle to boil. Two minutes. Sit on the floor against a wall, put a timer on, and just focus on how your body feels. You don't have to think of anything. In fact, actively try not to. Turn your mind inward. Focus on your breathing and any sensations in your body. Do a head-to-toe scan: the top of your head, very gently going all the way down through your shoulders, each vertebra in your spine, into your hips, down your legs to the soles of your feet. That's two minutes, and I guarantee it will make you feel calmer throughout the day. It sounds ridiculous. Can two minutes of that really have an impact? I swear by it.

So, tiny little details that really aren't going to take away from your life. They should augment it, and they're very simple to implement. And really pay attention to what you need as well. That priority list we all have, if we even feature ourselves on it, we're usually very low down. Put yourself at the top, because then you're able to serve people better, if that's really your driving force. But also, you deserve to be able to look after yourself. When you feel better, life just flows so much better. So, the simplicity of breathing, meditating, and choosing how to bring yourself joy, which I already talked about. Those are going to be the simplest fundamentals.

Nikkiey: I'm going to back you up 110% on that, because I definitely agree on breathwork and meditation. People say, I don't have enough time to do that, or it's woo-woo stuff, it's not real, it's not going to help me manage my stress. 110% it will. I've really dedicated the time for myself consistently over the last three or four weeks: waking up and taking 15 to 30 minutes, depending on the time I have in the morning, before I even look at my phone or talk to anybody, and sitting and meditating in front of my red light therapy. It's been a game changer.

So with all that being said about the mental component of menopause, those are some of the recommendations and strategies you would tell women to implement in their everyday lives, overarching the stress management piece. Would you recommend the same thing for women who have physical symptoms too? People experience a hot flash, which is more on the physical side. They experience fatigue on the physical side. It feels overwhelming. So second to stress management, what components or strategies would you offer women for lifestyle changes that would help them navigate those aspects of menopause?

Hatty: Often these things happen in clusters, and you might have five, six, eight, 20 symptoms all in one go, which will undoubtedly change over time. So hone in on the three that cause you the most trouble. I know that's difficult to whittle down, but let's say you're having hot flashes, you're gaining weight, and you're suffering from insomnia. Those are three really common ones and really big ones to tackle. First of all, I would say investigate as many options as you possibly can, because knowledge is power. When you have options, you can choose, you can try it out, and you can change your mind. That's critical throughout pretty much anything, but certainly with perimenopause and menopause. Please remember, you can change your mind at any point.

For the physical, I would say start with the basics: look at your diet and how much you're moving. A lot of us think we're eating really healthily, and when we actually break it down, there's room for little tweaks to improve. Make sure you're getting enough green cruciferous vegetables like kale, cavolo nero, spinach, cabbage and spring greens. All of those will make sure you're pooping regularly, which is really critical, because you've got all your hormones running around your body, and there's a possibility you're producing too much estrogen or holding on to estrogen that has already served its purpose. It's almost second-grade estrogen. As long as you're having regular daily bowel movements, your body is able to flush out what it doesn't need and hopefully produce what it does need.

So we're looking at lots of plants, which can provide phytoestrogens. Yes, exogenous estrogen, but from plants. Your body will either assimilate and use it productively or it won't. It will adapt accordingly. As long as you're getting enough plants, you're fueling your body to make the hormones you need, on the whole. Like I said, I'm not a medical professional, and if you had your bloods tested and had a deficiency, maybe plants alone aren't going to do it for you. Seek medical advice. Always seek medical advice, should you choose, and then you can either take it on board or not. You don't have to do what your doctor suggests. You have freedom of choice.

But diet-wise: plants, lots of green cruciferous vegetables, and eating the rainbow, which everybody has heard of. It's good because you get your antioxidants, your micronutrients, your vitamins and minerals, and your fiber, which is going to be really important, also for satiety, so you're not wandering around hungry the whole time.

Then protein. The vast majority, if not every single one, of my clients simply have not been eating enough protein. There are protein yogurts. One of my friends was having a bit of a meltdown the other day. She said she walked into the supermarket and there were chicken breasts labeled as high in protein. It's not high in protein. It is a protein.

Nikkiey: You can't market chicken as high in protein. It is only protein.

Hatty: Yes. Well done, marketing.

Nikkiey: Oh, Lord.

Hatty: But there we are. If you have a chicken thigh, it has perhaps a higher fat content, and the chicken breast slightly lower. But it is a protein source. Make sure you get enough. You don't have to weigh and measure everything the whole time. A palm-sized portion of chicken, fish, meat of your preference, or tofu will do, on the whole. Let's say you weigh 60, hang on, we'll do it in pounds. So 120 pounds. Then you eat 120 grams. Hang on. Yes, grams per day. I'm trying to do the pounds and the grams because we use kilos over here.

Nikkiey: You're doing great. You're doing great. I don't know the Fahrenheit and Celsius one, but you're doing great on this side.

Hatty: Roughly that. If you weigh 160 pounds, then you have approximately 160 grams of protein. So maybe you need four, maybe five portions a day. Just eat enough protein. The American diet is very similar to the English diet in that breakfast often consists of carbs, which are great. I love a piece of toast.

Nikkiey: Thanks for putting that in there, Hatty.

Hatty: Oh my goodness. Banana bread, quinoa, even with my eggs. My three or four eggs in the morning set me up beautifully for the day. Perhaps a bit of avocado on the side, or maybe some sweet potato. I ramble about food. I'm a bit obsessed with lovely, flavorful food. But make sure you get your protein in from first thing. Start your day with protein of whatever genre, whether that's eggs, chicken, fish or tofu. It's so important for maintaining more stable blood sugar throughout the day, which will then most likely impact your hot flashes.

Because if you're having, say, toast with jam or jelly in the morning, then perhaps a cookie at 11 when you're tired, then lunch is good, let's say chicken and vegetables, great, then some chocolate in the afternoon, and then perhaps dinner is really great, you're setting yourself up for insulin spikes and drops that are very intense. We want little rivulets, little gentle mountains. It goes up, it goes down, it goes up, it goes down. But we don't want the peaks and troughs. When you get the peaks and troughs, you're so much more likely to have night sweats or hot flashes. Sugar spikes can impact your symptoms with really dramatic intensity. I've lost myself rambling, thinking about too many breakfast options.

Nikkiey: Food. No, you're fine. Those are all really great references to food, especially the highlight on protein. For people to navigate the physical aspects, rather than just the mindset with meditation and breathwork, I think it's really important to note how important nutrition is when going through this phase of life.

Hatty: It really is. Dialing it right in certainly had a huge impact on me, and it has on my clients. Just making sure they've got a steady intake of food throughout the day, because that's the other thing: quite often women tend to under-eat. Strength training is really critical too. Again, it helps the mental, helps the physical, maintains muscle mass, and is good for brain health and heart health, all the things we really need to pay attention to. Not in a doom-and-gloom way, but just to look after ourselves. We want a really long health span, not just to live and then decline. We'd like to live in good health for as long as we possibly can. So put all of this together, all the different pieces of the jigsaw puzzle: eating well, strength training, stress management and looking after your sleep. They all weave into each other and will play a significant role. So the physical side is really going to rely on diet and strength training.

Nikkiey: Beautiful. To piggyback off that really quick, and also to segue into how I want to close the show with you, which is that fun fact I wanted to save for the end, because I think it's going to be really inspiring for listeners. On the nutrition aspect: if you're eating right through perimenopause, you can make the menopause journey that much easier on your body physically. It will lessen the load of sleep disturbances, hot flashes and mood swings if you're giving your body the appropriate fuel it needs to support the hormonal changes going on inside. Would you agree with that?

Hatty: Oh, 100%. And it will also support your GI. If your gut health is good, the gut-brain axis is real. When your stomach feels good, when your insides feel good, you feel much more positive about life. You feel happier, so the mood swings will be less as well. And when your digestion works, your body is fueled better and feels better. So the mental and physical all match up.

Nikkiey: Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. 110%. Okay. So you did something really cool at 51. Do you want to tell the audience what you did?

Hatty: I have spent a season competing as a bikini masters bodybuilder.

Nikkiey: For people who aren't watching on video right now, my jaw just dropped. That is so badass. You competed in your first season as a competitive bikini bodybuilder. And how did you do? Were you champion? Give us a stat.

Hatty: I had a few successes and a few placings. I won a Welsh champion title for the over-40s and over-45s, and British champion for the over-50s, in different federations. So that was amazing.

Nikkiey: Okay, Hatty. Amazing. Incredible. First of all, I applaud you, because I have been there. I can resonate with you. I competed back in 2018. I know what it takes to get to the stage, let alone what it takes to be in the mindset that I'm going to win, and then win. It is not easy, especially at 51. Taking that on, wow. That's such an incredible achievement. What inspired you to take on the challenge, and what motivated you throughout your journey?

Hatty: Oh, I really appreciate that, because I know you've done it. You've got undefeated championship titles, so you know how hard it can be. I wanted to surprise myself. I wanted to see what I could do. And it's the opposite of anything I would ever have dreamt of doing. If you had told me three years ago that I would do this, I would have said I would rather eat my own foot than stand on a stage in a very tiny crystal bikini and heels and be judged for it. So I decided this would be a huge challenge for me. It would tell me once and for all whether I was disciplined or not. Now I know that I am, or can be. I can equally fall off the rails as much as anybody else.

And I've had so much fun doing it. I started not really knowing anybody, and now there's this incredible community of supportive women in particular. There are some lovely men around as well, but when you're getting ready for stage, with all the spray tans and pre-competition, you're very much segregated into women and men, and on show day the men's categories tend to run quite separately from the women's. You might have thought it could be a little competitive and bitchy, but everybody knows that all of us have worked intensely to get to the point of actually stepping on stage. So everybody is really supportive: good luck, well done, let's have some fun. We do our best to do that. And the outcome, as long as you know you've done everything you can, really doesn't matter. Yes, getting a trophy and tiara is amazing. Is it the be-all and end-all? No, absolutely not.

I would love to do it again. But I was eating so little, certainly toward the end, because I was prepping for a very long period in the end. It was 10 months and a large number of competitions. I would like to tweak my health back to where it needs to be. It hasn't deteriorated badly, but there are areas I know I'd like to improve. Then I'd like to build and grow and improve so that I'm very different the next time I compete. And that takes time. It's not exciting for people: you don't walk into the gym and turn around an hour later transformed. It takes time and consistency. Definitely consistency. So I'd like to do that, and then perhaps 2026 will be the next time. But it's been wild.

Nikkiey: Yeah, I bet. I understand that journey, but you did it. That's so awesome. Everything you said there is so true. You really do get united with the people, rather than, hey, I'm here to beat you, or I hope I beat you. It's, we're in this together. We've gone through the same journey if we put our all into it. It's cool to get the trophy and the tiara and the win status, but I think it's more important to know who you became along that journey, which, as you mentioned, is disciplined. You really do carry that on. You have to be that way when you're competing, you learn what that is, and then you can take it and apply it to your own life too.

I know many women listening to this have competed or are interested in competing at 50 or older, or maybe 45. It's an intense goal to take on and go through, but it's totally doable, as you just shared. What message do you hope your journey sends to women about strength, about age, and about redefining what's possible if they have this in mind? What would you say to them?

Hatty: If I can do it, then you can do it too, if you want to. You have to want to do it. If you don't want to, there is no way you will see prep through. But if you do, then absolutely. I would say please, please do your research on your prep coach. Get a good prep coach who knows how to take care of you, how to look after your heart health, your thyroid health and your gut health, and keep you healthy doing it. Actually competing is not the healthiest part of the sport, but it can be done as healthily as possible. So please get somebody to coach you and look after you who genuinely has experience and knowledge of older women in particular, I would say.

Apart from that, go for it. Why not? What have you got to lose? Enjoy the process as much as the outcome and the result. Let the idea propel you through. Know your why, because when it does get difficult, everybody goes, oh, it's really hard, it's really hard. Yeah, it is. It's really hard, actually. There'll be a period of time where it's not, and then it is. Know why you're doing it, and that will keep you through the difficult parts. If you have companions or friends in the sport, hang on to them, look after each other, look out for each other. Even a message here and there makes such a difference to your day, particularly if it's bad, or if it's good. Share it. Share the love. I'm sure there's something else, but really, just go for it and enjoy.

Nikkiey: Love that. Enjoy, because it is hard, but you can find the enjoyment in it if you look for it.

Hatty: Yeah. Lots of lessons learned, but all good.

Nikkiey: That's so cool that you did that. Congratulations again. I'm excited to hear how you do once you take the time to recalibrate and grow, and then maybe go back at it in 2026. That sounds like a fun goal for you, Hatty.

Hatty: Thank you. Yes.

Nikkiey: It was an absolute pleasure to have you on The WarriorBabe Show today and to hear your story, your insights, your knowledge and your strategies around menopause. Where can women find you?

Hatty: First of all, thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure. I could chat with you for days and days about all sorts of things, and particularly share battle stories about competing. That would be hilarious. Where can people find me? I'm on Instagram at Real Menopause Talk. Drop me a DM. You can also email me at hatty, that's H-A-T-T-Y, @realmenopausetalk.com about anything we've talked about, or anything else, in fact. And my website, which is a little erratic and needs updating, is realmenopausetalk.com. It is there. So those are the best places to find me.

Nikkiey: Awesome. I'll put all of that in the description below, you guys, so you can easily click those links to get in contact with Hatty if you feel inclined. And most importantly, definitely check out her podcast. It's a really good podcast with more information on this specific topic. Hatty, thank you so much for being here. It's been a pleasure.

Hatty: Thank you. Take care, Nikkiey. Enjoy the rest of your day.

Nikkiey: Thank you. You too. See you, everyone.

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