How Do Women Build Muscle? Protein, Macros and Lifting

Nikkiey: Real quick, the only ask I could ever have of you guys is to help spread the word so we can help more women lose body fat, build muscle, reach their goals, and feel insanely confident. And the only way we can do that is if you rate, review, and share this podcast. So the single thing I ask for you to do is if you could leave a review. It will take you 10 seconds, and it will mean the absolute world to me and may change the world of someone else.

Morgan: The questions about intermittent fasting and strength training and how we work around that. So if someone's really wanting to intermittently fast and also wanting to strength train and build muscle, what's your recommendation there?

Nikkiey: My recommendation is completely counterproductive.

Nikkiey: Hello, what is going on, you guys? Welcome to The WarriorBabe Show with Nikkiey Stott, co-founder of WarriorBabe. On this podcast, we talk about mindset, methodologies, and tactics that will help you lose body fat, build muscle, be strong, and feel insanely confident. I am your host, Nikkiey Stott, and welcome to today's episode, episode 152, where we're doing a little something different here.

We are sharing an episode when I was a guest on Dr. Morgan Nolte's podcast, Reshape Your Health. In this episode today, you are going to hear Dr. Morgan talking and asking all of the questions to me on how to build muscle, the macronutrient world, and helping you guys along your fitness journey. So buckle up and enjoy.

Morgan: I just want you to give us a breakdown. In case anybody forgot from the other 20 episodes that we've had on this, why is strength training and building muscle so important?

Nikkiey: All right. We're kicking it right off the gate, Morgan. Let's go. By the way, audience, I'm stoked to be here and to serve you guys today. So I hope that you do take away tons of valuable information and go run with it. Go apply it.

So the question is building muscle and why it's so important. So many reasons. To speak high level, I love following, I don't know if you follow her, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon.

Morgan: Yep. She's been on the show too.

Nikkiey: Let's go. She shares her message through her platforms in a way that just resonates so freaking hard with me. And to sum up in one sentence why building muscle is so freaking important, and I'll elaborate too, it's that muscle is the organ of longevity. Muscle is an active tissue on our body. And there's a saying: you either use it or you lose it.

There was a stat that I was reading last year that our muscle mass decreases approximately three to 8% per decade after the age of 30. And this hit so hard when I read it, because I remember working in the ER and seeing so many people coming in with fractured hips and osteoporosis, which we were talking about a little bit before this. I just believe wholeheartedly that if you have more muscle on your body, your bones are going to be stronger and you're literally able to add more years to your life.

And that means so much. That means being able to keep up with your grandkids. That means being able to get up and down from your chair so much more easily, doing normal lifestyle activities on a daily basis more easily, all of the things. So that's one of the main reasons why I think it's so important. Then we can even dive down into talking about your metabolism and your physique and all of the things. But overarchingly, it's that muscle is the organ of longevity.

Morgan: Yep. So Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, that's kind of her trademark saying, and that's why we brought her up. She had a great episode as well. We'll get into some of those principles, but also go deeper into the conversation. This will be a good dovetail to my conversation with her. You really recommend tracking macronutrients, and I'm curious, why is that such a cornerstone of your approach?

Nikkiey: Macronutrients just scientifically make the most sense. Until it's proven differently, this is the way that I will forever believe is the best way to get a wealth of knowledge in the nutrition realm.

What I like to say, and what we talk about in the WarriorBabe community, is that tracking your macronutrients, fully doing it, protein, fats, and carbs, is your North Star. You gain so much knowledge from understanding what you are putting onto your plate when you focus on what foods are made up of. And in terms of gaining the physique, I specifically speak to building more muscle and changing your body composition and all of those things.

In order to get to that type of goal, you really have to hone in on looking at your nutrition for what it is. You're not going to be able to decrease body fat and build more muscle tone solely focusing on counting calories. Because with calories, you could be consuming a little bit of protein, you could be consuming a ton of carbs in a day, and you could be consuming moderate fats. But the main thing you need to focus on, if you want the type of goal I just said, is finding the balance between the three of them.

And macronutrients, I say, is a skill set that will serve you for the rest of your life. If you can understand what you're putting on your plate day in and day out, how that serves a purpose, and the way it fuels your body to go after the activities you want to do on a daily basis, perform more professionally in your work, have clear mental space, because fueling your body that way is so freaking important, and then go work out, strength train, and build the strong body that you want, you've got to nail it down to eating what your body needs to fuel properly.

Morgan: That's a beautiful explanation. Where do you typically recommend somebody start with macronutrients? I just want to leave it at that because there are so many different avenues we could go down. Where does somebody start if they're like, all right, I'm buying in, I'm going to track my macros. Now what do I do?

Nikkiey: Yeah, totally. So like I just said, tracking your protein, fats, and carbs is the total North Star of where I would love to get everybody, ideally. However, I understand that the general population is like, what is a macronutrient?

Morgan: Exactly.

Nikkiey: No idea what macronutrients are. I remember being at the dog park and this woman was looking at me like I had three different heads, and I was like, okay, let's take a step back here.

The way that I typically approach it, and I know our coaches approach it inside of WarriorBabe, is we meet the client where they're at. Say we're on an onboarding call face-to-face on Zoom, and we're asking a bunch of questions to gather an understanding of where this client is at exactly.

The majority of the time, they have no idea what protein, fats, and carbs are. They don't know what foods consist of them. So we're like, okay, let's understand that our North Star is this. In order to get to that North Star, the only thing I want clients to focus on is just eating more protein. The amount of women, and this was my problem too. When I first started, I had to Google what foods consisted of protein. I had no idea. So I've been there, and I've learned so much through the years. But women are not eating enough protein.

Protein is literally the macronutrient king. It matters for all of the goals and all the things that happen internally with your body, and how it helps you to reduce body fat too, even when you're eating it. But without getting too sciencey, that's where I would love people to start. Let's just have seven days of you tracking how you would normally eat. Open up MyFitnessPal, even if you've never opened up MyFitnessPal a day in your life.

Let's just do it, because we have to build new habits that are going to get you to where you want to be, and you have to bring about change in that respect. Even if they don't want to, and I'm sure we're going to get into talking about this, there's always a little bit of resistance at the beginning. I don't want to try. I don't want to have to do this. Well, we'll get there. So I make them track. I'm very blunt. Matter of fact. You want to change? I can get you to change as long as you meet me.

And you want it just as bad as I want it for you. But I can't want it entirely. You have to want it. So they'll track for the first seven days. Typically, after the first seven days, it's like, okay, it's 60 grams of protein a day. And I'm like, all right, guys, that's not enough. We need to fix that. So you think about the North Star I said, protein, fats, and carbs, and let's take a step back.

Let's just focus on the North Star of getting to your body weight in protein. That means, I'm 150 pounds, so I'm eating 150 grams of protein in a day. And some people look at me dead-eye in the face, like, how the hell do I get to that? And I'm like, okay. You're only eating 60 grams of protein a day. Let's make the goal 100 grams of protein a day. And the easiest, simplest way to break it down is, if you have 100 grams of protein to focus on and you're eating five meals a day,

that's 20 grams of protein in a meal. That is maybe 150 grams of egg whites. That's maybe three ounces of chicken. That's maybe one scoop of protein powder. That's maybe some Greek yogurt. And I can fire this off in my head because I've been doing this for so long. That's ideally where I want everyone to get to. With tracking macronutrients, like I said earlier, you're seeing the portion sizes you're weighing out on plates consistently.

And you're able to eyeball it. You're able to see it. And it just becomes intuitive at that point. So I break it down like that. Okay, 100 grams of protein is our goal. Sweet. We'll track it. That's the only thing I want you to focus on. Because if I have them focusing on all three, it's instant overwhelm and they just want to give up out of the gate. I know that's not a way for our clients to succeed. So for a couple weeks, they're just doing that. Then we'll bump up the protein to get it to their body weight. And they feel more confident after they've seen, okay, that's not that hard.

They have to do it. That's how they gain confidence in themselves and the belief that they can do it. And then, usually a month or a month and a half in, and it's totally different for everybody, so I'm just ballparking it, we'll start playing with the fats and the carbs. Honestly, I don't care too much where the fats and the carbs are coming from, because interchangeably they work great together. And that can be overwhelming if we're trying to get the fats and the carbs to align perfectly. So that's, again, not yet the North Star. It's like, how would you continue to add this stuff in?

And then we work our way up to protein, fats, and carbs. It's not an overnight thing, and it's not typically a first-couple-of-months thing. You're rebuilding, you're establishing new habits, so you've got to give yourself grace in that respect. But that's how I would typically approach getting somebody to love macronutrients and see that it's an awesome thing to understand. I'm obsessed with it until it's proven otherwise in the scientific world.

Morgan: Yeah. I like to say it removes the marketing labels. It puts foods on an equal playing field, because beef can't advertise for itself, legally. Whole food is at a disadvantage for marketing. You might see a protein bar in the store that says high protein, but on the back it has more added sugar than it does protein. When you're actually tracking your macronutrients and you see what is in your food, it's on a level playing field now, and you can't hide behind any marketing.

I wanted to clarify something. You said a gram of protein per pound of body weight. Is that ideal body weight or current body weight? What's your opinion on that?

Nikkiey: It depends on the physique I'm working with. Let's say I have somebody who's 200 pounds, 250 pounds. I'm not going to make that human eat 250 grams of protein. So that would be ideal body weight. If it's a physique that is skinny fat and we're trying to build up some more muscle, then I want her to potentially eat the gram per pound of body weight, or maybe even 1.2.

So I said that broadly speaking, but it totally depends on who I'm working with.

Morgan: That makes sense. We typically say one gram per pound of ideal body weight for the exact same reason. We're not going to make somebody who is 250 pounds eat 250 grams of protein in a day, because they would hate us, and it probably would not be very feasible. So I think we're totally on the same page there. We know also that in order to build muscle, protein is just one part of the equation, and strength training is so important.

And this is kind of spitballing, but do you think that eating enough protein or getting the resistance training is more important for building muscle? Do you have an opinion on which is more important, or do you really need them together?

Nikkiey: You really need them together. I always say nutrition is king, exercise is queen. You need the protein for muscle fiber recovery after you break it down.

You break down muscle in the gym. You don't build it there. You break it down. You build it in the recovery periods afterwards, which come from proper nutrition, sleeping well, hydration, all of the things. So they coincide totally together. You need the progressive overload in order to put the resistance on the muscle, and then you need the protein to be able to repair and build it.

Morgan: I agree 100%. I'm curious, when you have clients start out, what is your recommended training schedule if their goal is to build muscle mass, independent of weight loss, let's say?

So we have their protein target. What recommendations do you have for their strength training program? Or do you table that until they get their nutrition dialed in? What's your approach on that?

Nikkiey: Totally depends on who I'm working with. If somebody has never strength trained a day in their life, or depending on the type of equipment they have, I may have to do some magic with tempo work with bands and tempo work with body weight, and tell them, you've got to get some dumbbells and you've got to get some barbells, because that's where the resistance is truly going to come from.

But the majority of the time, if we've got the protein down and they have an understanding that they need to get into weights, it's going to be progressive overload for me no matter what. I'll start somebody with a goal of focusing on some main compound lifts, like shoulder press, squats, chest press, deadlifts, and then isolation work around that. I'll do progressive overload, playing around with the weights out of the gate, playing around with the sets and reps, playing around with the time, playing around with the rest periods.

And then changing them every few weeks to continue to create stimulus in the muscle and keep challenging it. But the North Star with people I work with, regardless of how individualized it gets, is always going to be the progressive overload approach.

Morgan: Will you explain what that is, just in case somebody's listening and they're like, what in the world is progressive overload?

Nikkiey: Yeah, totally. It's the continued ability to create more resistance on your muscles so that they get challenged over time.

And you're doing it in different variations and different ways. Like I said, you're doing it by increasing or playing around with rest periods. You're doing it with different sets, reps, all of those things. Tempo work is another great way. There are definitely different facets, but overarchingly, in layman's terms, it's the ability to stimulate your muscle to be able to grow.

And you've got to change it up every once in a while. But in addition to me saying that, you've got to do the boring work. Progressive overload is doing the boring work on a weekly basis. A lot of women come to us and they're like, I'm so bored with my workouts. I want different workouts every two weeks. And I'm like, that's not the case here. You have to keep doing the same exercises over and over and over again, because it helps to promote muscle growth.

It helps to promote adaptation. It helps to build more resistance. I feel like I'm repeating myself there. But when your muscles are subject to progressive overload, they undergo microscopic damage. To get a little more into the weeds of the science side of things, you're breaking down the fiber, and that damage you're doing to those muscle fibers stimulates the body to repair and strengthen those muscle fibers. Gaining more muscle mass is the overarching North Star of progressive overload. And this gets the body to continually adapt.

Morgan: And I'll tell you what is not progressive overload, which is an applicable example for many people listening. I used to teach Jazzercise. We had Jazzercisers using the same five-pound dumbbells, eight-pound dumbbells for years. For years. For those just listening, Nikkiey just hung her head like, oh, no. That is not progressive overload. That is using the exact same weights. It's not going to get you the results you want. So I think strength training is important.

I recommend all major muscle groups at least twice a week at a moderate to high intensity, preferably high. And I typically do three to five sets. But I'm curious, how would you optimize that program? Would you change anything about that?

Nikkiey: So you said the muscle groups, two times a week?

Morgan: All major muscle groups, two times a week at least. So working your glutes at least two times a week. Your quads two times a week. Your chest, your back, your arms, two times a week.

It could be a split routine, where Monday I'm doing pushing, Tuesday I'm doing legs, Thursday I'm doing pulling, Friday I'm doing legs. Or it could be a total body routine, which is where I started, honestly. I did two days a week of total body, and I would work all major muscle groups on those two days. That's typically our recommendation. I was wondering how you change things, or if you had any more nuanced information to add there.

Nikkiey: I think it totally depends on the individual. A lot of these answers depend on the individual and who I'm working with. If time permits, I would love split work. I would love the bodybuilding-style approach. And it depends on the goal. Are we trying to build up small muscle groups? Then I would love to continue to do splits for isolation work. Or are we trying to build more mass? Then I would do a little bit of the compound movements with progressive overload, maybe a little bit of powerlifting style.

Or, and I don't want to use that word, maybe it's just weight loss and getting the human to move their body, and we do full body. I'll be totally transparent. I've totally changed my training techniques over the last couple of years just to learn what I enjoy the most. Because like I said earlier, nutrition is king. If I can nail down my nutrition and get that spot on, then the way I exercise, and it's always strength training for me,

is whatever I enjoy. Do I love doing splits? I loved it. I did it for a while in the bodybuilding world. Then I transitioned to full body because my legs weren't recovering as well from doing splits. I was doing legs two times a week, and I was actually hospitalized for rhabdo. So it's like, okay, well, now I've got to tweak that.

Morgan: Explain what that is, because people are like, what's rhabdo, if they're not in that field.

Nikkiey: It's where your kidneys cannot filter out the lactic acid fast enough.

Basically, I was waddling around like a penguin. My muscles were consistently in a state of being contracted, so walking, bending, sitting, it just hurt. And I knew it, because I've had it before. That was probably the third time I've had rhabdo, unfortunately. And for females, once you've had it, it happens more predominantly.

And I wasn't hydrating enough. So I had to be hospitalized for it, and I had to get seven liters of fluid, and I looked like a balloon. That was not fun. So at that point, I was like, I need to change up my training. That's when I went full body. And recently I've been doing push, pull, legs. So I play around with a lot of different things.

Morgan: I love that. And I want people to really understand that. We are both experts in our field, and we still play around with our workouts. There's still no perfect program for us either. But we embrace that.

We embrace that there's no perfect program. We can have that structured flexibility with our lifestyle. And I think that's one thing that keeps it really sustainable for us, that structured flexibility. We give ourselves permission to mix it up. And speaking of mixing it up, I would love to talk a little bit more about bulking and cutting, because that's not something we've talked about on this podcast. Can you explain what bulking is, what cutting is, and who it's appropriate for?

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Nikkiey: Totally love this. I actually just did a podcast on this on The WarriorBabe Show. It was one of the most recent ones, an episode in the low 140s.

Essentially, I love to use cutting and bulking if you really want to put on muscle mass. I think that's the best way to say it. But I want to note here, women don't have to go into a bulking phase. We were talking a little bit before this about how scary the bulking phase can be. I personally love to call it the building phase, because it brings a different kind of narrative to the female brain. Bulking is like, oh my God, I'm going to get fat. But essentially, the cutting phase is a period where

your primary goal is to decrease body fat while preserving your lean muscle mass as much as possible. I've talked about it many, many times on the podcast: there's a difference between weight loss and fat loss.

Morgan: Yes.

Nikkiey: Fat loss is when you're eating enough of the right macronutrients, and enough protein, essentially, to keep your muscle mass intact as you're losing the body fat around it. During that phase, you're typically focusing on being in a calorie deficit, and you're looking to improve your overall body composition.

You want to get more of the aesthetic look while preserving the lean muscle mass. Because if you're just looking to lose weight, you're going to lose muscle mass along the way. So that's the cutting phase. The bulking, or building, phase aims for people to focus on building more muscle. Muscle needs a little bit of fat to grow. So in that phase, you're focusing on being in a little bit more of a caloric surplus.

The more food you have, the more you're able to recover your muscle. You're able to increase in strength, and overall you're building more muscle. And then what I love to say is, when you're done with that phase, you transition back into a cut and you get to reveal all of the hard work you put on while you were in the building phase.

Morgan: So is it possible to do both at the same time, in your opinion, or is it just not as effective if you're looking to build muscle and drop fat at the same time? What's your perspective on that?

Nikkiey: Totally. And that's where there's the little thing in between these two called maintenance. Maintenance is where the magic happens. I don't think I finished my thought before, but a lot of women don't have to go all the way up into a building phase. You can totally stay at maintenance, but you have to be eating enough food to help those

processes happen internally in your body, which is building more muscle while at the same time being able to decrease body fat. While you're building more muscle, you're essentially increasing your BMR, you're increasing your metabolism. You're doing a lot of things that will aid in the process of decreasing body fat. So I love to say that a lot of women don't have to start off their journey in a cutting phase. I sometimes don't even recommend it, because a lot of these women aren't eating enough anyway. And if we go cut, we're just going to bang our heads against

the wall because nothing's going to happen. You're not going to get the results you want, because your body needs more food. So I love bringing people into WarriorBabe and getting them to eat more food out of the gate, getting them to sit at a higher caloric intake. They don't know it, but it's their maintenance. And then they do the strength training, and they're like, oh my God, I'm seeing all these incredible changes. And I'm like, that's the food, baby. That's maintenance.

Morgan: Yes. I was wondering, because I think there are differing opinions on that. I think we need to talk a little bit more about protein dosing too, and about intermittent fasting and how all this works together. I've made two big mistakes over the last few years with my nutrition and exercise programming. When you get into intermittent fasting, at least for me, there's this all-or-nothing mindset of, I am not eating until 10 a.m. And I would strength train in the morning and not eat until 10 a.m. And it was taking me days to recover.

And I thought, I'm not that old. I should be able to recover faster than this. So one of the big mistakes I was making was not fueling right after strength training, and I want to talk about the importance of that. The other big mistake was under-dosing my training. Even as a physical therapist, I was working mostly at a moderate intensity. I would love your opinion on the benefits of moderate versus high intensity, and whether moderate intensity is ever beneficial for certain physique goals or anything like

that. So let's start with the questions about intermittent fasting and strength training and how we work around that. If someone's really wanting to intermittently fast and also wanting to strength train and build muscle, what's your recommendation there?

Nikkiey: My recommendation is that it's completely counterproductive, and I'll explain. For the purposes of building muscle, it's completely counterproductive. As we've been talking about through this entire podcast, the most important thing I've been saying is nutrition and feeding your body. What happens after you're done strength training is you're repairing

and building back the muscle that you just broke down inside the gym. There are many reasons why I believe fasting is counterproductive, but the main one is that it reduces the ability for protein synthesis to happen. Intermittent fasting causes a reduction in protein synthesis, which is the process of building new muscle tissue, and protein synthesis is most active after consuming

protein. So when you have protein in your body and you're about to go do a strength training exercise, you're starting the whole process of protein synthesis. If protein intake is limited, as you were talking about with the dosing, muscle growth is going to be compromised. At the same time, when you're not fueling your body before you go into a strength training activity, your body is active tissue. It needs something to fuel off of. If you're not giving it what it needs, it's going to turn on itself and

use itself for energy to help you get through the activity. That's what I mean by counterproductive. You don't want to use the muscle up, because you want to build it and you want to get the physique you want. If you're not feeding your body what it wants, it's going to turn to another energy source to get what it needs, and that in turn causes muscle breakdown. So if you're fasting for periods of time, especially before any type of strength training, it's going to turn to muscle breakdown as the body looks for more

sources of energy. And then there's nutrient availability. If you're fasting for periods of time, it can be challenging to consume the necessary amount of calories you need to support muscle growth. Those are just a few of the things. And there's a side story. I lived in Bali for six months, and I'll never forget this. A woman passed out in front of me at the breakfast stand. I looked at her and I'm like, what happened? She's like, I just got done strength training.

I'm like, did you eat before you worked out? And she's like, no. And I'm like, well, your glucose just completely tanked. So, to sum up that entire answer, it's just counterproductive. If you want to build more muscle and you want to have a toned physique, you have to give your body the things it needs, aka food, in order to support all of those things happening.

Morgan: Okay. So answer me this, because right now I'm fasted. I work out early in the morning, 5:30, and I'm strength training. Then I have my protein shake right afterwards.

Is that good enough? Or would you recommend I have the shake before slash during?

Nikkiey: I would recommend something before too.

Morgan: Because I ate dinner the day before. So there should be, in my opinion, something there, but you're thinking maybe not.

Nikkiey: I get that concept, but at any time, I just want to give my body what it needs. So I recommend people have protein and a little bit of carb before they go work out.

Morgan: Okay. So this is where my mind goes. It's 5:30 in the morning, and I'm not hungry and I don't feel like eating. And I feel like I exercise and perform better in a fasted state. I'm sure you get so many people who say, but I perform better when I'm fasted. So what's your comment back to that?

Nikkiey: Totally. I've heard this so many times. I'll never forget working with a client who said the same exact thing. And I was like, hey, trust me for a second. Trust me now,

believe me later. Go and give your body what it needs. Give yourself a protein shake. Give yourself a carb source, and do the strength training in the morning. And she was like, I'm going to throw up. I feel like I'm going to throw up when I eat before I work out. And I'm like, okay, I understand that. That's because your body isn't used to consuming something before you go and lift. It's done X, Y, and Z for so long, going fasted, lifting, and then eating afterwards. So I was like, just give it time for your body to adjust.

Your metabolism needs to adapt. It needs to recognize what you're feeding it before you go lift. So she did that, and she came back to me two weeks later and was like, I'm ready to go. I'm so hungry in the morning. I can't wait to eat. I can't wait to work out. But the most important thing that came from that was her ability to lift more weight. And sure, those methods work. I don't want to put down the fact that you fast if that's how you perform better. Some people do. But I look at it in terms of what's the ultimate goal I'm going

for. I want to build more muscle. I want to be stronger. So what are the things that are going to aid in that process happening? Food. So she did that, and then she was like, I feel so much stronger. I can lift more. I'm not tanking out early. For people who fast in the morning, maybe you've experienced this, because I've also gone through periods of trying it and seeing how I feel. I love being my own biggest experiment. And I tank out in 30 minutes, or even less. I can't get through

how I normally would get through without food in my system. And I think it could be different for everybody.

Morgan: Okay. I have a couple of follow-ups there. I was working out in the afternoon and felt so much more gassed in the afternoon. Interestingly, I was fed, but it was the afternoon, and it could be because my cortisol rises naturally in the morning to wake me up. So I think that definitely helps. It was amazing, the amount of weight I'm able to lift in the morning and the number of reps I'm able to do compared to what I was doing in the afternoon.

Nikkiey: Yeah. That's crazy.

Morgan: So that's number one. Number two is I'm open to trying it. Like you said, I'm certainly open to trying it. I have to figure out a way to blend that up without waking my kids up.

Nikkiey: I know.

Morgan: I will try that. It won't have the same texture, but I can accept that. So my next question was, what is your typical pre-workout meal? You said a little bit of carbs, but is that like half a banana, or what is that for you?

Nikkiey: Mango. These are from Whole Foods. They're the mango gummies. They're one-ingredient mangoes.

Morgan: So how many grams of carbs do you have?

Nikkiey: Thirty grams. Twenty grams.

Morgan: Okay. And then how many grams of protein?

Nikkiey: Usually 25, 30. A scoop of protein.

Morgan: Okay. What do you have after?

Nikkiey: Whey, or Greek yogurt, because I like to limit my protein shakes to about two a day. Artificial protein is not my jam. And I try to get the best quality protein shakes.

And then afterwards it's a protein shake and a banana.

Morgan: Okay. One thing I want to point out, and if people don't follow you on Instagram, they should, so they can see your physique, is that it's a rare opportunity when we get to talk to someone with your physique and see how much you eat. Because I think so many people out there probably assume you don't eat very much. And I also want to preface this: a lot of people in our community are focused on insulin resistance. Their focus is blood sugar management. And I think it is okay for you to have one goal of blood sugar management, lowering

insulin resistance, and eat two or three times a day, but then reach that goal and move on to the next goal of body recomposition. A lot of times what we recommend is two to three meals a day, focusing on nutrient-dense foods. Then they reach those goals and they're like, what's next? In my opinion, you can either start with your approach or start with our approach. But ultimately, if you want to get into that muscle-building phase, we have to be okay eating

food. And that is such a mental roadblock for people, myself included, obviously, since I've been used to fasting more. So you're suggesting about 30 grams of carbs, depending on how hard you work out, before you work out, plus some protein. Then you refuel right after you work out too.

Nikkiey: Yep.

Morgan: Tell me what that meal is like.

Nikkiey: That one's the protein shake and banana. That's usually about 25 to 30 grams of protein. And then a banana, depending on the weight of the banana, is

usually anywhere from 25 to 32 grams of carbs as well.

Morgan: And how long are you working out for? You said you just do strength training. How long is that workout?

Nikkiey: Typically 40, 45 minutes.

Morgan: Okay. And then do you not eat again until lunch and then dinner? What does the rest of your day look like?

Nikkiey: Then around noon, I have my staple. It's not really breakfast at that time, but to me it's breakfast. I don't really do breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Breakfast is typically a bagel with cream cheese and egg,

a whole egg and egg whites. I've literally had that same meal for the last two years. I'm boring all around, and I don't like to cook at all, Morgan. Then the rest of the day is Greek yogurt with some granola and honey. And typically dinner is from Whole Foods, which I live right across the street from. They make pre-made meals, and I get chicken scallopini, some asparagus, and some mashed potatoes. And typically there's another meal in there.

It's either cottage cheese and some fruit spread, or on the go, if I've only had one protein shake in a day, I'll do a Condition One protein bar, which is so good. It's lemon poppy. It's made from real food. So good. And then I always finish my night with dark chocolate. Always dark chocolate, two, three, four pieces, depending on where I can fit it in my macros.

Morgan: One thing I want to highlight is the simplicity and the repetitiveness,

the repetitiveness, I think I'm saying that right. That is so important. She's not mixing it up. She figures out what works for her and she does it. And she doesn't use the excuse of, well, I don't like eating the same thing over and over and over again. Well, I bet she likes her physique. I bet she likes the simplicity. She finds what works for her, and she keeps it simple. And I wanted to know, how many doses of protein, because I focus on doses of protein.

If we're thinking about the three-gram leucine threshold, because we work mainly with older adults, I like to use the three grams versus 2.2 or 2.5. So about 30 grams of a high-quality protein. If we're talking about our average client, how many doses are you getting a day? Three, four? If you're doing three solid meals and a shake or a bar or cottage cheese, I'm just trying to follow along and figure out how many doses you're getting.

Nikkiey: Probably around five.

Morgan: Okay.

Nikkiey: I have protein at each different meal. So I eat five meals a day, and I'm having protein at each one of those meals.

Morgan: That's incredible to me, and I think it's mind-blowing. The coolest thing: I had Debra Atkinson on this podcast. Have you heard of her, from Flipping 50?

Nikkiey: No.

Morgan: She's really great, and she is jacked as well. And she brought up something that was so cool. She said, your current strategies got you to where you are, but you might need a new strategy to get you where you want to go. So I love learning these strategies and challenging myself, because I am so big

on blood sugar management, and eating less often is going to be inherently better for blood sugar. However, my blood sugars are amazing. And the foods you're eating also make a difference for blood sugar, and building muscle mass in general is so good for blood sugar long-term.

Nikkiey: Amen. Amen.

Morgan: So you can hear in my voice, oh my gosh, I'm going to go from not eating before I work out to eating before I work out, and maybe eating after I work out, and then eating

another time in the day. If that's one, two, then lunch and dinner are three and four, and then maybe another high-protein snack or something in there. What are the biggest mindset blocks that you encounter? Because I'm just like everybody else, and it's like, if I eat that much, I'll just gain weight. What happens then?

Nikkiey: First of all, I can tell with your voice that you are intrigued to learn a different type of strategy. I respect that so much.

Morgan: Oh yeah. I'm always open to it.

Nikkiey: That's awesome. Second, think about where you are right now and what you're trying to do. You kind of just said it: you have to be open to trying different strategies. You made assumptions about what's going to happen, and all of us base things off of assumptions. It's just the way we've been ingrained growing up. Maybe somewhere along the way it was marketing, family, I don't know, diets X, Y, and Z, or carbs make you fat.

These narratives that play in our day-to-day get ingrained in us, and we believe them. And we assume that's going to happen to us. What I would say is, you won't know until you try it. Trust me now, believe me later.

Morgan: Trust me now, believe me later. I like that.

Nikkiey: I say that to all of my clients, because they have those things too. They have these preconceived notions. They have these concepts, these stories, these narratives in their heads.

And I like to challenge those beliefs and ask what evidence they have to support them. Typically they never have the evidence to support those thoughts. It's usually just made-up concepts. One of my favorite things to do is challenge the mindset, to get them to break the beliefs and break the narratives and be able to trust what I'm trying to do with them. First of all, in a professional space as a coach, my goal is not to make my

clients fat. That's the joke I like to put out of the gate. My goal is to make you feel your healthiest, best self. It would be wrong of me as a professional to go against that. So I always like to challenge these beliefs. Why? What's your evidence? What's your data? And typically it doesn't match up. It's just the stories they're telling themselves.

Morgan: Okay. But I'm such a good student, and I think you've done such a good job

leading by example. I've done a nice job up until this point and I'm ready to optimize. I'm ready to go to the next level. I'm ready to really get serious about putting on more muscle mass. I'm doing great, but I'm ready to take it to the next level. So I'm excited to try new things. I'm excited to try that pre- and post-workout strategy. I think I'll probably start there and not really change anything else, just do my other two meals, and see where that takes me. And then if I feel like I want to add in another snack, I'll do that.

And I want people to understand two things. Number one: teachable mindset, flexible mindset. I'm learning. Number two: I'm not doing everything that she says. Oh, there go the balloons. If you're watching on YouTube, sometimes when I do my hand motions, a thumb will go up or balloons will start to go up. And I always say, okay, good, Zoom agrees with me on this. So number two is, we have to have that growth mindset. We have to have that curious mindset, not an all-or-nothing mindset.

I'm picking one thing that she said today, and that is what I'm going to take from this conversation and apply to my life. And I hope other people are doing the same. But before we hop off, I have to dig into your mindset a little bit more about consistency with tracking, because we teach a macro-centered program, and I have a slightly more sensitive approach to it for a couple of reasons. The first is people with eating disorders or a history of an eating disorder. When they come in, they have that history of being super obsessive, and it not being

psychologically very healthy for them. So what is your approach to macro tracking in that scenario?

Nikkiey: What I always joke with our team is that we're not just personal trainers. We're somewhat of a therapist too, helping women in the different areas that are still within our scope as personal trainers, as best we can. But I wouldn't even go down that road. Like I said earlier, the North Star is this.

But I first want to dig into understanding those stories and narratives, where they come from, and how I can support that human where she's at before I enter into that world, and I may never enter into that world with that human. I may just do portion sizes. I may just have her focus on protein, and then the other things kind of fall together. We work on intuitive eating out of the gate. There are definitely different phases in which I would navigate certain situations.

So that would be the approach for that one, for sure.

Morgan: Okay. I wanted to get that one off our chest, because I think some people listening definitely have that going on and that resistance to tracking. And we just wanted to say, we see you, we understand you. This is not a cookie-cutter approach. The other thing is discipline and accountability. I'm so disciplined about what I want to be disciplined about, and for some reason I just have this mindset block around tracking. I don't know if it's because I feel very dialed in with my nutrition already, or

what it is. But let's go back to the beginner mindset. Somebody who's like, I'm gung-ho about this, I'm going to track my food for a few days, and then, oh, it's too cumbersome, it takes too much time. Those types of beginner mindsets. How do you address those?

Nikkiey: I always try to understand what the human's why is. Why do they want to reach that goal? And it's typically very superficial at first. I want to lose weight. I want to feel better in a bikini.

And I'm like, okay, let's go a little bit deeper. Tell me really why. And she's usually like, oh, I want to be a role model for my kids. I want to be more intimate with my partner. And I will always remember that. I know that in order for that human to get to the goal of building more muscle and getting to the physique they want, or to get to the deeper reason of feeling more confident in their skin, I will hold them to that vision no matter what.

And along the way, at the beginning, kind of like I said earlier, I'll ask them about who they want to become. How is that person showing up, and what is that person doing? So out of the gate, I get them to think in that mindset: what is that person doing? How are they showing up? What are they eating? What are they doing on a daily basis? They're eating right. They're tracking their macros. They're getting to the workout. They're having the results they want.

Okay. So right now we've got to start acting like that person, and we've got to bring it into the present day. And macronutrients are a part of getting to that goal. So wherever they're at, I meet them where they're at and try to bring them along the way to that goal. Okay, we're starting here with macros, and a couple of months in, we're going to add this here. We mentioned this a little bit before jumping onto the podcast.

I always get the excuses: macronutrients are time-consuming, macronutrients are tedious, and I don't want to have to do it for the rest of my life. And I'm like, dude, you don't have to do it for the rest of your life. But right now, right here, you want to get to this goal. It's a skill set. I don't look at it as another diet. I don't look at it as another trend. I look at it as science. In order to get you to where you want to be and who you want to be in the long term, intuitively eating and feeling more confident with food, macronutrients are a skill that you

got to understand.

Morgan: It is. It's knowledge, but knowledge means nothing unless it is applied consistently. So I think knowledge combined with action and discipline is what leads to success. You can't have success with improper knowledge, and you can't have success with no action. You need both of them, and you need consistency, because I think success is just little disciplines compounded over time. Understanding macros and proper nutrition is just a skill set that anybody can learn.

And we are both so passionate about this because we live it and we know how awesome we feel. We want everybody else to feel as physically, emotionally, and mentally energetic and awesome, because how does the world change if everybody is showing up at their highest capacity?

Nikkiey: Amazing. It's amazing.

Morgan: So I think we're both equally passionate about helping people improve their health. I just wanted to check my list quick before we hop off.

Nikkiey: And there's one thing I do want to piggyback on there, because you keep talking about discipline.

Everyone listening to this: you cannot rely on motivation. I had Sal Di Stefano on my podcast, and I asked him, what's one of the biggest myths in the space? He goes, motivation. I was like, bro, I was not expecting you to say that, but tell me more. And it's everything out there. The marketing is all about motivation. Finding more motivation. You've got the motivation. But motivation ebbs and flows. Motivation is good. It's just an emotion. It's going to come in and it's going to go. I know this morning I didn't want to wake up and go work out.

I don't want to get my steps in on a daily basis. But what has been a part of 99% of my success is that I have the discipline to follow through no matter how I feel, no matter what temptations I have. I don't feel like doing this, or I don't want to track my food, or I don't want to go work out, or X, Y, and Z. I still show up. And that's what a winner's mentality takes in order to get to the goals you want. You've got to be disciplined. You've got to flex that discipline muscle on a daily basis. That's the only way it's going to get stronger.

Morgan: And holding that future vision of yourself top of mind. We really work on that vision. We call it our personal faith formula. I just rewrote mine. It's so good. I'm reading it morning and night, and in pieces throughout the day, to hold that vision of my future self there and hold myself accountable to it. So reading it morning and night, creating action items, all of this is so important. If you do that, you learn how to make decisions from your goal, and you accept and reject ideas from your goal, because everybody's current circumstances are their biggest limitation.

And we have to get outside of that and into the vision, into the goal, in order to achieve it. I love this conversation about the future version of yourself and discipline. And I say, use your limited willpower. If you're going to use your willpower and your motivation for anything, use it to impact your mindset and to get the person you want to become into your subconscious mind, because then the motivation to follow through will naturally happen. But this morning, I did not want to get out of bed.

I'm like, I'm cold. I'm tired. I didn't sleep well. And I said, absolutely not. Anytime you are negotiating with yourself or rationalizing a decision, that is your old programming working. That is not the future you. So if someone takes something away from this episode, I hope it's: do it now, be it now. I say that every day. Do it now, be it now. It's day one. If you wake up with that urgency, you will be so much more likely to follow through on your action items for the day.

If you hold that future vision in your head, you don't rationalize with yourself, and you don't accept your own excuses, that's part of it. So we talked a little bit about strategy. Everybody knows I'm obsessed with mindset. And your current results tell the story. Whatever your current physique is, whatever your body composition is, whatever your blood sugar is, your results reveal the story, and they reveal your standard more than anything. What standard are you placing on your life? So I think with vision casting and goal setting, we need to elevate the standard.

And I could talk about this all day. I think I'm coming on your podcast in the future, and we should talk about this.

Nikkiey: Heck yeah. I would love to. I can see you're on a roll with it, and everything you're saying is so freaking good. There's a quote, I forget what it is, I'll find it, and I want to touch on it on my podcast, but it's something like you are your lowest standards. You have to operate differently. I'm butchering that, but you get the concept. I saw the little light bulb go off.

Morgan: Well, it's almost like a team. You're only as strong as your weakest link. You're only as strong as your lowest standard. And the thing I love about standards is that your goals can change, but goals take a long time to reach. Reaching the body composition you've got did not happen overnight, and our clients do not get results overnight. But our standards are the daily choices that we can up-level every single day. That's why I like the difference between a goal and a standard. And I could talk to you...

Nikkiey: Look at you. You are going off right now. Let's go. I love it.

Morgan: I know. I was like, I could talk to you all day and pick your brain. I feel like this is a coaching session for me on my next level and my next strategy

to try. And I'm so appreciative of your time. You've been super generous with your time today and your expertise. So let our audience know where they can learn more about you and the WarriorBabe program.

Nikkiey: They can find me on Instagram. I love to hang out there the most, at Nikkiey Stott. WarriorBabe, warriorbabe.com, YouTube at WarriorBabe. Those are all the places. WarriorBabe and Nikkiey Stott everywhere.

Morgan: Awesome. We will link it up and we'll stay in touch. Thank you so much for coming on the show and offering your expertise.

I really hope people take their strength training and their nutrition strategy to the next level, and that they pick one thing we talked about today and implement it right away. Do it now and be it now.

Nikkiey: Let's go. Thanks, Morgan, for having me. Appreciate it.

Morgan: Thanks. You're welcome.

Nikkiey: Real quick, the only ask I could ever have of you guys is to help spread the word so we can help more women lose body fat, build muscle, reach their goals, and feel insanely confident. And the only way we can do that is if you rate, review, and share this podcast. So the single thing I ask for you to do is if you could leave a review. It will take you 10 seconds, and it will mean the absolute world to me and may change the world of someone else.