How Menopause Changes Your Metabolism and Fat Burning

Nikkiey: Real quick, the only ask I could ever have of you guys is to help spread the word so we can help more women lose body fat, build muscle, reach their goals, and feel insanely confident. And the only way we can do that is if you rate, review, and share this podcast. So the single thing I ask you to do is leave a review. It will take you 10 seconds, and it will mean the absolute world to me and may change the world of someone else.

Michal: One of the problems during menopause, and the reason why women suddenly gain weight despite eating and training exactly the same, is because during menopause, we are much more sensitive to muscle breakdown.

Nikkiey: What is going on, you guys? Welcome back to The WarriorBabe Show with Nikkiey Stott, co-founder of WarriorBabe. I am so freaking excited. Even just spending the last five, eight minutes getting to know these women has been remarkable. It's just such good energy all around. And I'm really excited to dive into who we have here today on this podcast episode. Today joining us are Michal and Merav. You guys, yes.

Merav: Don't tell them you've been practicing for the last five minutes to pronounce our names.

Nikkiey: Oh, my secret's out. Yes, it's very true. And I'm really excited to have these ladies on. They are the co-founders of Lumen. And I'm sure, as I just said that, so many of you guys have heard of this brand in the space. They're experts in metabolic health. They got their PhDs in physiology, and they're twin sisters. If you guys are watching this on video, they look identical, and they're transforming the space and how we understand metabolism, especially during menopause. So I'm really excited for these ladies to share some insights on navigating this stage of life, our metabolic health, metabolic monitoring and all the things in this space. This is going to be a really epic episode. So ladies, welcome to the show.

Michal: Thank you, Nikkiey. Thank you for having us.

Nikkiey: Of course. Again, you guys bring such good energy. This is going to be so much fun. So let's dive in. The first question that I want to ask you guys is, how does menopause, in your world, affect women's metabolism, and why do so many women experience weight gain during this period?

Michal: It's a great question, Nikkiey. I'm going to start by saying, first of all, thank you for taking women's health and putting it in the front. Because I think one of the problems we have today is that women's health is not getting enough attention. And the reason we see it, right, is that there is not enough knowledge and understanding regarding how women's metabolism changes throughout the different phases of our life, throughout the monthly cycle and throughout menopause. And when we think about it, it basically makes sense, because the technology for measuring metabolism is not accessible. So when there is no proper technology to provide data, with no data, it's very hard for us to understand what is going on.

And this also leads us to the second problem, which is lack of guidance, right? What can we do in order to overcome those symptoms? How should we eat, how should we train, how much sleep should we get during the different phases? Even the guidance that we do have today comes from understanding and research on men's metabolism. And women are not small men. And this is going back to why I started by saying thank you for this opportunity: the main problem with women's health, and what makes Merav and me sad the most, is that it's not getting enough attention.

So there is a lack of awareness about how those changes in metabolism impact our day to day. I think the percentage is around 50% of women who experience symptoms during premenopause. And because they are not aware that those symptoms are due to changes in metabolism, they are not managing those symptoms, and those symptoms get worse once they get into menopause. Those symptoms are weight gain and brain fog and low energy. And it affects our life, because when we have brain fog, we are less able to perform, and we see it with early retirement of women. And low energy puts us in a place where we are less likely to take part in different social activities, so it damages our relationships with our loved ones. And those changes in body composition, especially belly fat, are leading women to have a high risk of developing metabolic diseases such as diabetes and cardiovascular disease, and even cancer and neurodegenerative disease.

So one of the main reasons Merav and I put in the last two years, or the whole Lumen journey...

Merav: Twelve years.

Michal: Twelve years, but we started to explore a lot about women's metabolism in the last two years. It was to enable everyone, especially women, to have the ability to measure their metabolism in the palm of their hands, in order to better understand how their metabolism is changing, take smarter decisions, and overcome and manage those symptoms, such as weight gain.

Merav: Nikkiey, I think we need first to understand that there's a very strong connection with metabolic flexibility. That's our metabolism: the body's ability to rely on fat to produce energy and to easily shift into carb burn, for example following a meal containing carbohydrates. And once you understand that metabolic flexibility relates to different chronic diseases, like Michal mentioned, such as obesity, insulin resistance, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and neurodegenerative disease, that it even plays a crucial role in inflammation and actually determines our lifespan and longevity, you understand that our metabolism actually determines where we are on the metabolic health spectrum.

And we all know that lifestyle, the things that we do, our nutrition habits, activity level, sleep patterns, for example the quality of sleep, and how stressed we are, has a direct impact on our metabolism. Yet I think what not all of us are aware of is how dramatic an effect sex hormones have on our metabolism. And women especially experience dramatic hormonal changes during their lives: during the monthly cycle, pregnancy, premenopause, menopause, postmenopause.

I think we published it last year: we wanted to examine how different phases of our lives affect our metabolism. We analyzed, for example, data taken from more than 4,000 female Lumen users. Lumen has more than 6 million metabolic measurements, so we are able to get insight on metabolism in a way that no one was able to until Lumen, I think, innovated metabolic measurement on a daily basis.

And what we showed is that women who experience a regular monthly cycle actually also exhibit a cyclic metabolic pattern. We demonstrated that in the first half of the monthly cycle, pre-ovulation, in the follicular phase, we tend to wake up relying more on carb oxidation. So we actually rely more on carbs to produce energy. It actually means that we are less flexible, since a flexible body will wake up after an overnight fast relying more on fat stores to produce energy. When we looked at the second half of the monthly cycle, post-ovulation, in the luteal phase, we showed that women tend to wake up relying more on their fat stores, indicating they are much more flexible. So think of it like this: in the first phase of the monthly cycle, we tend to rely more on carbs, and in the second half, we tend to rely more on fat stores. And the nicest thing is that when you look at which hormones play a crucial role, it's actually estrogen and progesterone. There are significant changes during the monthly cycle, which correlate to changes in metabolism.

Nikkiey: So there's a lot to unpack there. You mentioned a couple of key topics I definitely want to dive into. I've heard you guys talk about metabolic flexibility, and I'm glad that you brought that up, because I want to touch on a scenario there and then lead into a couple of questions I have, and then the fat-to-carb way that our body processes, which I'm super curious about. I am just in awe of you guys. Twelve years of putting in the Lumen work, which I'm definitely going to ask you about, the technology and how this came to fruition, to dive into this space, which is so niche. Understanding metabolism is honestly, in my opinion, something that lets you get to know a human's body so accurately: how they're going to be able to perform, what aspects of nutrition are going to be utilized best for results, but also for optimal health, in terms of the brain fog you were talking about and reducing any types of diseases from happening in the future. So, so good. And then the two years you just spent getting to know a little bit more about women's metabolism specifically is super exciting. This journey with you guys, you guys are going to the moon. I love it.

So let's imagine this scenario. We've eaten a healthy dinner, we've taken a nice relaxing walk afterwards and managed to get eight hours of sleep, but despite doing everything right, you wake up feeling blah. You wake up feeling sluggish. Or think about training for a marathon. There are women who definitely listen to this podcast who are like, oh, I'm going to do that. Just like in Kentucky here in the U.S., there was the half Ironman, the 70.3, all around.

Merav: Really? When was it?

Nikkiey: It was two weekends ago, I believe. So the swim, the bike and the run all equaling the 70.3. People do that kind of stuff. And if people are training for a marathon, everything's going smoothly until one day, suddenly, they can't run the same distance, and they're not sure why these things are happening. Or some people listening to this are on a weight loss journey and they're losing pounds on a weekly basis, but then they can't figure out why, despite doing the same thing in the same routine, they're gaining weight back. Those are just a few examples of how our body responds in unexpected ways. It often boils down to what I've heard you guys speak about so much on this topic, and I'm really curious: can you explain what metabolic flexibility is and how we measure it?

Michal: Yeah, sure. So first of all, what is metabolism? Metabolism is like our body's engine. It takes fuel, carbs or fat, and produces energy from it, ATP. Now, at the root of metabolism we have mitochondria. Mitochondria are like those powerhouses inside our cells that are able to take carbs or fat and produce energy from it. When we have healthy mitochondria, it means they will rely on fat during fasting and during long, slow, steady energy demand, for example during a low-intensity workout. So if I'm going for a long cycle, for example eight hours of cycling, healthy mitochondria will rely more on fat in order to have that steady energy. But healthy mitochondria will also shift to use carbs, for example after a bowl of pasta, after a meal. And when I need high energy, for example when I need to perform, or when I'm in a high-intensity workout, like a sprint, or when during cycling I suddenly need to climb a mountain, in that moment the mitochondria will shift to use more carbs, because it's much easier for her to use them. So this is what defines a healthy metabolism, by defining what healthy mitochondria are.

Now, for your question, one of the problems during menopause, and the reason why women suddenly gain weight despite eating and training exactly the same, is because during menopause we are much more sensitive to muscle breakdown. Muscles are packed with mitochondria. So when we are losing muscle, we're basically losing mitochondria. And with less mitochondria, we are less able to burn fat during fasting, and this is what leads us to fat accumulation, especially in the belly. Also, with less mitochondria, we have less power for that boost of energy that we need. So we're going to feel less energy, and we're going to feel less able to perform during high-intensity workouts.

Merav: I just want to continue. One of the things we also looked at in our data is how the metabolism of women in menopause is affected. And what we show is that women in menopause, again, tend to wake up relying more on their carb stores. So they actually lose the ability to have a flexible metabolism, and it might be the reason for the symptoms Michal just mentioned. When you look, for example, at women in menopause who are taking hormone replacement therapy, their metabolism is shifted back into relying more on their fat stores. We didn't measure hormones in the paper I'm telling you about. Yet when you understand the changes in those sex hormones in menopause, that, for example, estrogen and progesterone are significantly reduced, almost to zero, and in hormone replacement therapy there's exactly estrogen and progesterone, it's like providing a boost to burn more fat. It makes you think maybe you can actually measure your metabolism and get an indication of how effective hormone replacement therapy is on symptoms during menopause.

Nikkiey: Ladies, are you feeling frustrated with body changes you're experiencing during menopause? It's time to take control. If you're between 45 and 65 years old and tired of struggling with body fat and muscle loss, WarriorBabe is here for you. At WarriorBabe, we've helped over 18,000 women just like you lose body fat, build toned muscle, and understand their bodies better with personalized plans based on hormone and thyroid testing, and more. Imagine knowing exactly what your body needs to see real results, and results that last. Look, don't wait anymore. Take charge of your health and join our community of strong, empowered women. Visit warriorbabe.com/apply today to start your transformation. That's warriorbabe.com/apply. All right, let's get back to the show.

So you're saying that basically when women go through menopause, they flip between different storages, using their carbs or fats for their energy to get throughout the day. Does everybody switch? Obviously I know everyone's metabolism is very individual, but is what I'm understanding that the majority of women flip back to the fat storage throughout the day, but utilize the carbs in the morning?

Merav: So we didn't test what happens during the day, mainly following an overnight fast. But it's so personal, how our metabolism is affected. It depends on our BMI. We've just published a study showing that the ability to wake up in fat burn depends on gender and age and phase of the monthly cycle, and for those in menopause, which phase they're in and whether they're under hormone replacement therapy, and lifestyle. And lifestyle affects everything.

Michal: I think it would be true to say that a healthy body will wake up in fat burn. If you are not waking up in fat burn, it basically means that the four lifestyle elements, your nutrition, movement, sleep and mind, are not in balance, and you should take some action. Now, most of us think that everything is about nutrition. So we think, okay, we should eat less, or we should avoid carbs, or maybe we should have an early dinner. But as Merav said, it's really about all of them. Another thing that happens during menopause is that our cortisol, which is the stress hormone, increases. Cortisol is a hormone that also serves us. When we need to perform, for example during a high-intensity workout, cortisol increases and pushes our mitochondria to rely more on carbs, and this is what gives us the energy. But when cortisol is chronically high, the mitochondria are pushed to use carbs all the time. It puts a lot of effort on the mitochondria, she gets weaker, and her lifespan gets shorter. And again, we have less mitochondria, less ability to burn fat. So one of the things that we can do in order to reduce cortisol is to have a diet which is rich in serotonin, which is a neurotransmitter that tells our brain to calm. For example, a diet rich in bananas and walnuts and oatmeal. Enriching our diet with those will decrease cortisol and will enable us to wake up more in fat burn.

Nikkiey: I love that explanation. I just got done recording a podcast right before I hopped on with you guys, speaking about cortisol and weight gain and how it always happens around the abdomen.

Michal: Abdominal. Yes.

Nikkiey: And your explanation there is going to feed really well into diving a little bit deeper with the mitochondria. So thank you. Which actually brings me to the next topic I want to ask you about: how our bodies manage energy, which is how you guys are breaking it down in terms of the mitochondria. If we have good mitochondria, this is how we're going to feel in our body. If we're losing mitochondria, this is what's going to happen. I feel like our bodies are like hybrid cars, right? We're switching between, and you mentioned this a little bit earlier, carbs and fats, depending on what we need at the moment. And the mitochondria know what we need, but we're the ones making the decisions about what fuel to provide our bodies. So can you explain that process a little bit more? How can we stay in tune with our bodies, particularly to optimize our energy levels as we go through different stages of life? How can we stay in tune and recognize what's happening?

Michal: So our body has two main sources of energy, fat and carbs. Fat stores are basically unlimited, but our mitochondria find it much harder to use fat to provide us with energy. So during fasting, when we need steady energy and we don't have a high energy demand, healthy mitochondria will rely on fat. Carb stores are pretty limited, but it's very easy for us to use them. So, for example, as I said before, after a meal, the mitochondria will use the carbs from the meal to produce energy, whereas when the mitochondria are not working properly, they will take the carbs from the meal, store them as body fat, and keep burning fat.

Now, it's important to say that there are six mediators that determine whether the mitochondria are working properly or not. Imagine that those mediators are elements in our body that connect the four lifestyle elements, nutrition, movement, sleep and mind, with the mitochondria. Those mediators are cortisol, insulin sensitivity, muscles, circadian rhythm, CoQ10, and cortisol, I already said cortisol...

Merav: Glycogen.

Michal: Glycogen, yeah. Those are the six. So all the things that we can do to manage those mediators will help us. I'll give an example. Glycogen stores are our body's carb reserve. We want to keep them fluctuating. We don't want our body's carb reserve to be too full, because then we will have too many carbs in our system, the mitochondria will get carbs all the time, and she will forget how to use fat. And exactly the opposite: if we avoid carbs completely, our body's carb reserve, glycogen, will be empty all the time, and our mitochondria will need to use fat all the time. That also puts a lot of stress on her, and she will forget how to use carbs. Then once we eat carbs, she won't know what to do with them, and our body will store them as body fat. So this is one example of how managing our carb intake and managing our activity, meaning high-intensity workouts that deplete glycogen, keeps glycogen in those healthy fluctuations. We always want it not too full and not too empty. So this is one example of how to manage that.

Merav: I think it's very important to understand that eventually it's a matter of balance, right? We can say what the perfect nutrition, the perfect activity level and stress are, but come on, we are human beings.

Nikkiey: Amen. Amen.

Merav: It's really a matter of balance. For example, if you do a lot of activity during the day, you need to get more sleep. Or if you binge a little bit too much, you can compensate for it. Understanding that our body is so personal and there's no one size that fits all is part of the magic of measuring metabolism, because then you can take smarter decisions in real time instead of following a certain playbook that fits the majority of the population.

Nikkiey: So I knew I loved your energy when we first came on, but now you're speaking the language that I speak, and I appreciate it so much. We are definitely in alignment in that regard. Everyone is very unique and different, and there's no one size fits all. The one thing I loved that you brought up is that maybe people shouldn't be eliminating one macronutrient. This is The WarriorBabe Show, so I love talking about protein, fats and carbs. And it sounds like if we were to eliminate carbs, our mitochondria wouldn't like that, because they'd be depending so much on one other macronutrient, and it's not a good balance. And vice versa, if you take out fats and you're having all these carbs, then your mitochondria are going to go one way, and it's not going to be an ideal balance either. So what's your take on keto and low carb and all that kind of stuff?

Michal: I'll try to be politically correct. I can say, even from a personal point of view, I'm 43 today. I've been breathing into Lumen and measuring my metabolism for almost eight years.

Nikkiey: Yes.

Michal: It used to be that low carb was very beneficial for me. I did personal carb cycling. I ate more carbs on days that I had resistance training, in order to support muscle recovery, and on days with low workout intensity, I ate almost zero carbs. And today, from the moment I celebrated 40, I see that not only do I need more carbs, I also benefit much more from a dinner which is rich in carbs. And the reason for that is that when you start premenopause and menopause, or the older you get, you are much less insulin sensitive.

This is what causes sleep disorders. One thing I mentioned is that cortisol increases; this is what makes it hard for us to fall asleep. Second, because we are less insulin sensitive, even when we do fall asleep, we have drops in blood glucose levels during the night, and this is what causes us to wake up, even if we don't notice that this is what happened. But this is what happens. So when I eat a meal that is rich in carbs, complex carbs accompanied by protein, it stabilizes my blood glucose level during the night, and I get a much better night's sleep. It supports my body being in sync. So I'm having a good night's sleep, my mitochondria are getting rest during the night, and when I wake up in the morning, those mitochondria have the energy, which we see by waking up in fat burn, to support me throughout the day. I'm experiencing much less drop in energy and much less craving.

So to your question, what is my opinion regarding low carb, high carb, carb cycling: it depends on the different phases of our life. It depends on my activity level. It depends on stress. Today I work much harder than I used to work 10 years ago, so cortisol is much higher. When cortisol is higher, it pushes my mitochondria to use more carbs, so I need to eat more carbs to support that high performance day after day. So I don't have an agenda. Sorry, I don't have a clear answer for you.

Merav: I also think there's what I call having fun. I have three kids, and our fun day is ordering pizza on Tuesday. Everybody at home, and friends now too. Yesterday we ordered pizza. And we had a user named Bernadette who reached out to me in person with feedback, and I was so excited to hear it. She told me it's not only a matter of losing weight; it's the ability to have control and to have balance in nutrition and activity and sleep and mind, as Michal mentioned, and eventually to be able to do the things you love to do. I love to eat pizza, and I don't want to be low carb for the rest of my life, and I don't want to do keto. Everything eventually is a matter of how you adjust and how you are able to maintain a healthy lifestyle, and not do it for three, four days and then, I cannot do it anymore, and you go and eat the fridge. Everybody talks about what is best. What am I willing to do and really incorporate for a long period?

Nikkiey: Yes. Amen. Restriction is never something that works long term.

Merav: Yeah.

Nikkiey: Amen. You've got to have the protein, fats, and carbs in the right balance for what your body needs. I totally agree with you guys. It's all about finding a long-term, sustainable approach that isn't going to make you cut out any of the key macronutrients and drive yourself crazy because you can't have pizza when you want the pizza, causing even more restriction. It's like me telling you not to think about a pink elephant. What are you thinking about right now?

Merav: I want the pizza. Eventually, I'm going to eat the pizza.

Nikkiey: Just don't eat the pink elephant.

Merav: Exactly.

Nikkiey: Are you feeling frustrated with body changes you're experiencing during menopause? It's time to take control. If you're between 45 and 65 years old and tired of struggling with body fat and muscle loss, WarriorBabe is here for you. At WarriorBabe, we've helped over 18,000 women just like you lose body fat, build toned muscle, and understand their bodies better with personalized plans based on hormone and thyroid testing, and more. Imagine knowing exactly what your body needs to see real results, and results that last. Look, don't wait anymore. Take charge of your health and join our community of strong, empowered women. Visit warriorbabe.com/apply today to start your transformation. That's warriorbabe.com/apply. All right, let's get back to the show.

So let's bring it back to the mitochondria, because you said it perfectly, and I agree: our muscles have these little fat-burning powerhouses, and that is the mitochondria, the cellular power plants responsible for producing energy. It's in the mitochondria that fat gets metabolized, as you were sharing. So I'm thinking people listening may be wondering: how can they get more mitochondria?

Michal: Wow. More mitochondria. When you have more muscle, you have more mitochondria. So in order to have more muscle, you need to incorporate resistance training as part of your routine. Now, it's not that aerobic sessions aren't good for us, but in order to build muscle, you need to lift weights to create those small tears in your muscles so your muscles will grow. Another thing you need to pay attention to is having enough carbs in your system before you do the workout, because as I said before, women are much more sensitive to muscle breakdown. So if we train hard without having enough carbs in our system, our body will take the muscles, break them down, convert them into carbs and use that to produce the energy we need in that session. So we are basically going to break down muscle instead of building muscle.

Another thing we need to pay attention to is that after the workout, we need to feed the muscles. We need to be nice to our muscles. We need to feed them with protein and carbs and fat in order for them to be able to grow, like children. We need to grow them like flowers. We need to be in an anabolic state, and for this, we need not to be in a caloric deficit, and we need to provide a lot of protein and carbohydrates in our diet.

Nikkiey: Amen.

Michal: Did I answer your question, Nikkiey?

Nikkiey: Yes, 100%. You totally did. The way I take that is you need to be giving your body a reason to create more of these little power plants.

Michal: More mitochondria.

Nikkiey: To create more of that, you have to be strength training. You have to put more intensity behind your workouts. You have to be challenging yourself with weight that actually puts intensity behind it, right? Because there are a lot of women in our community specifically who like to just go through the motions with their workouts. They get there, they show up, and they're like, hey, I'm here doing my workout, here's a five-pound bicep curl. And I'm like, that five pounds isn't really going to... you know, you're doing something, but you're not really putting your body through the stress and the intensity it needs to do what you guys are talking about, the science in our bodies of creating these results and mitochondria and all of the jazz. So that's the way I take it. We need to create more of it, and the way you do that is not just through the intensity of the workouts, but also by giving your body the fuel and nutrition it needs to do the things, right?

Merav: Yes. I also think that, on one hand, you want to increase muscle mass. On the other, you don't want to lose muscle mass. So, for example, doing very high intensity and not eating properly is one reason that can cause muscle breakdown. But I know, for example, today there are a lot of intermittent fasting strategies, and this is also something we need to be very careful with. It's a great strategy, but we need to manage it very carefully. I think it's not healthy to wake up one day and say, okay, today I'm going to fast for 16, 18 hours. Because, again, our body will shift into fat burn, but at a certain point cortisol will increase, our body will get into a stress mode, and our body will break down muscle mass to produce this energy. And eventually we will get the opposite effect from what we wanted.

Nikkiey: Thank you. Yes. It's so nice having you guys speak the same language. This is going to be good for the listeners, because they can listen to me all the time, but having two other women with PhDs and a wealth of knowledge in the space say the same thing, I'm like, yes, preach. It's the opposite effect of what women want. They don't want to lose muscle mass, especially the women who are in WarriorBabe and listen to the podcast. They want more muscle. They want to be more toned, is what women say. And I'm like, well, in order to get more toned, you have to build more muscle, and in order to build more muscle, you have to do all these things that you guys are aligned with as well.

Michal: You know, also, Nikkiey, more mitochondria also means longer life. When you have less mitochondria, what basically happens is that you're at higher risk of metabolic disorders and disease, and gradually you are getting away from quality of life and this vision of ending your life healthy. I mean, you can end your life healthy and live longer with a healthy metabolism and healthy mitochondria. So this is the big picture. The small picture is weight loss and weight gain and energy levels and brain fog, but at the high level, we're really going to live a longer, happier and healthier life.

Nikkiey: Amen to that too. And plus, on top of that, the more muscle you have, the more mitochondria, right? Dr. Gabrielle Lyon says muscle is the organ of longevity.

Michal: Exactly. That's right.

Nikkiey: So the more muscle mass we have, the longer we're going to live. I like this. Yes. I always tell the women in our community, who are 45 to 65 years old, guys, go lift weights, please. Because they haven't really been taught how to strength train or do resistance training and some high-intensity stuff, and that's what they need to do more of in order to add more years to life. More muscle in order to have more mitochondria, plus more mitochondria, as you guys have said, means more fat being metabolized, right? So with more muscle mass on your body, it's easier to burn more fat.

Merav: And also more ability to handle the carbs that we eat. For example, someone with more mitochondria: one of the things we demonstrated is that women who are metabolically healthier tend, following a carb meal, to better use the carbohydrates they just consumed to produce energy. So, in a sense, what happens if you're not metabolically flexible is that the glucose will stay longer in your bloodstream, and in time you will also develop insulin resistance and diabetes. You will be unable to use the carbohydrates you just consumed to produce energy, and they will also go into fat accumulation. So it's all connected.

Nikkiey: Yeah, it is all connected. It's pretty fascinating.

Michal: The more metabolically flexible you are, the much more able you are to keep burning fat without being in a caloric deficit, and the much more able you are to eat more carbs without risking weight gain. So you gain from both sides.

Nikkiey: It's fascinating. It really is. So I guess, let's bring it to... oh no, I'm going to save that. Let's bring it to exercise during menopause, because the women listening in our community are 45 to 65 years old, like I just shared. When you enter the perimenopause and menopause space, many struggle with weight gain despite doing all the things right. And with the muscles we just talked about housing our mitochondria, if they're decreasing as estrogen drops and bone density drops, they're losing muscle mass, they're losing the energy powerhouses. The decline makes fat burning and maintaining energy levels way more challenging, right? So how can they combat this? I think we already walked through strength training to help women increase muscle mass. But how can they enhance fat burning? How can they boost energy levels? You mentioned sleep, and there are a couple of other pillars. What are some aspects outside of strength training that can help women maintain this when it becomes more challenging during those years? Does my question make sense?

Michal: Yeah. So we mentioned what we can do in order to support our muscle mass, which is training and making sure we consume enough carbs and protein. Another thing is that we need to keep our circadian rhythm in sync. Our circadian rhythm is like our body clock. It's affected by day and night. It basically tells our body, and our mitochondria, when it's a good time to rest and recover and when it's a good time to produce energy. And when it's out of sync, the mitochondria don't have time to recover during the night, and it will also shorten their lifespan. So the things we can do to keep our circadian rhythm in sync are everything around our sleep. Avoid screens before going to bed. Have a meal before going to bed with complex carbs and protein, to stabilize our blood glucose level and get better sleep. Eat food that is rich in serotonin, to decrease cortisol and make it much easier for us to fall asleep. Those are the things we can do to keep our circadian rhythm in sync.

Another thing is everything we can do to improve our insulin sensitivity. Focus on complex carbs, because when we eat simple carbs, there is always a spike in our blood glucose followed by a drop in our blood glucose, and insulin goes crazy. So focus on complex carbs. It also helps us stabilize our blood glucose during the day, which helps with insulin sensitivity. And again, be active during the day, even if it's not a workout session in the gym: going up the stairs, parking your car a 10-minute walk from where you need to get. Those small movements during the day help with insulin sensitivity because they open a gate. What is that gate? It's GLUT4. GLUT4 is like a gate on our cells: when we move more, that gate opens, and glucose from the blood finds it much easier to go inside our cells and be used by our mitochondria. So it's like bypassing insulin, and then we need less insulin all the time to manage our blood glucose level. And in that way, it helps us keep insulin sensitivity high. Did I answer your question?

Nikkiey: Yes. Yes, you did. Well said. Because I think a lot of women struggle with sleep, and that's really important in terms of getting the circadian rhythm down. A lot of women only sleep four or five hours, maybe six max, and they're so busy going throughout the day. And that leads to hormonal fluctuations, creating bad habits with food, and then the insulin levels and the cortisol spiking and everything like that. Yeah, it totally made sense. I'm curious, tell me about Lumen a little bit more. With the device, you breathe into it, right? And it tells you exactly about your metabolism. Explain the technology behind that.

Michal: Actually, it's pretty simple. When our mitochondria use carbs to produce energy, they release more CO2, carbon dioxide, into the blood than when they use fat to produce energy. So you measure into Lumen with a specific maneuver: we guide you to inhale a specific amount of air, hold the air in your lungs for 10 seconds, and then exhale. By asking you to hold the air in your lungs for 10 seconds, the carbon dioxide in the blood reaches equilibrium with the air in the lungs. And when you exhale, we measure the carbon dioxide in the exhaled air, which is basically an indication of what is happening in your blood, which is an indication of what your mitochondria are using for fuel right now. So this is the thing.

Merav: We didn't invent metabolic measurement. Metabolic measurement has been used since the '60s in hospitals, top clinics and lots of research institutes. Yet the technology itself is very robust. It takes about 45 minutes. You're supposed to lie down for about 45 minutes, covered with something like an astronaut, and you need a physician. Sorry, it's the air conditioning here. You put it on 20-something.

Michal: I know. I don't know. I feel hot today.

Nikkiey: Maybe it's premenopause.

Merav: Look, it's almost 40 degrees here in Israel.

Nikkiey: 43, right? You're both 43. You're twins.

Merav: I don't know what the weather is where you are, but in Israel it's 40 degrees Celsius now. It's hot. It's crazy here. So I'm sorry.

Nikkiey: It's about 85 degrees here right now, but not Celsius. I hear you.

Merav: Well, anyhow, the technology has already been used since the '60s. What we were able to do is, first of all, miniaturize the technology into something very beautiful. Maybe you have the Lumen device there?

Nikkiey: No, I don't.

Merav: It's the size of a palm, a very beautiful one. And I think the most important thing is that we were able to shorten the time of the measurement. So instead of 45 minutes, you're now able to take it in only one breath. You just inhale, hold, and exhale through the device. And of course Lumen was validated with multiple studies. That enables you to measure your metabolism on a daily basis and take smarter decisions in your lifestyle. Because until Lumen, it wasn't really feasible to go to a clinic and do 45 minutes of metabolic measurement. It's something you cannot incorporate into your life.

Michal: Now, what we provide with that measurement: to summarize, we know that healthy mitochondria use fat when we are in a fasting condition. So by waking up in the morning and measuring your metabolism, you basically get three things. One, you get insight into whether your mitochondria are healthy today. If you see that you are burning mostly fat, you know that the four lifestyle elements, nutrition, movement, sleep and mind, all your actions, are in balance, you are on track, and you can keep going. If you see that you are burning mostly carbs, you get the understanding and insight into which of the four lifestyle elements is the reason. Because that measurement is sensitive to nutrition, movement, sleep and mind, Lumen is able to track and connect the dots: whether it's because you're not getting enough sleep, or because you ate too many carbs, or maybe because you ate your carbs late in the day, or maybe you just work too hard and you're under stress. So by giving that insight, you are able to take smarter decisions. For example, Merav can wake up in the morning in carb burn, and I can wake up in the morning in carb burn, but Lumen will tell Merav that she needs to sleep more, and for me, the recommendation will be that I need to consume fewer carbs today. The reason behind it might be completely different. So measuring your metabolism in the morning provides insight into how your lifestyle affects you and allows you to make smarter decisions for that day.

And as we mentioned before, there are also different questions during the day that you can answer by measuring your metabolism. By measuring my metabolism before a workout, if it's an intense workout, I can understand whether I have enough available carbs in my system to support it. If I see that I'm burning mostly fat, I know I need to consume some carbs. The app will guide me to eat some carbs, for example an apple or a banana, to support my workout and avoid muscle breakdown. I can also measure my metabolism after a meal to see how the food I ate affects my body and how well my mitochondria are metabolizing it. So there are many questions during the day that Lumen is able to answer just by measuring your metabolism.

Nikkiey: That's amazing technology. I need to give Lumen a try. I'm curious, though: you're saying measure your metabolism a couple of times throughout the day, and I totally hear you and agree. What is a realistic number of times for someone to take their Lumen out and test where their metabolism is?

Merav: The main measurement is in the morning, after an overnight fast. But as Michal mentioned, there are several others; it really depends on who you are. For example, if I'm a person who does a lot of exercise and I want to prepare my body well for the workout, I will take the pre-workout measurement, and then I can also take a post-workout measurement to see how well my body recovered. If I'm doing intermittent fasting as a strategy, I can take the morning measurement, and then take a measurement, for example, every hour or two to see if I'm still shifting toward fat oxidation and not getting into stress mode, where my body shifts back into carb burn. So there are a lot of measurements tailored to your specific lifestyle, yet the main one is in the morning following an overnight fast.

Michal: Now, it's important to say that Lumen is a system: a device that connects to an app. You measure your metabolism through the device, but the app guides you and gives you the insights and recommendations. Although I can talk about metabolism and explain mitochondria and what you should do when and why, for some of us it's just too much at the beginning of the journey. Not all of us studied for a PhD in physiology and are well-practiced in all of this. So the app keeps it very simple. You wake up in the morning, and based on your measurement, it will provide you with a daily nutrition plan of what you should eat today, carbs, protein and fat, taking into consideration your activity level, your monthly cycle, whether you are in menopause, even whether you are taking a GLP-1, which is like Ozempic. On that drug we are even more sensitive to muscle breakdown. So we take all this data in order to support you with your daily macros. So it's very easy to use.

Nikkiey: That's pretty cool. So it'll tell you, okay, you woke up in the fat-burning state, which is ideal, and then, depending on your metabolism state, what your breakdown of carbs, protein and fat should be for the day?

Michal: Exactly.

Nikkiey: And will that change regularly?

Merav: Yes, because Lumen is always learning. We have an algorithm in the back end that is always learning how your metabolism responds to the daily macros. Based on that learning, there's a feedback loop: we're always learning you and always adjusting. Also, as we all know, on days that I run a marathon, I need to eat differently than on days that I don't. And on days that I'm not getting enough sleep, we should consume more carbs to avoid cravings later. Lumen takes all of this into consideration and adjusts it to your daily routine. So every time you wake up, we do the adjustment and provide you with the adjusted plan.

Nikkiey: That's super cool. Okay, so we have a link, which I'm going to go use, with 15% off. If you guys are interested, I'm going to put this below and also share it here. After this conversation, there's so much insight and so much knowledge that you ladies bring to the table in terms of metabolism, metabolic health, metabolic flexibility, mitochondria, all the M's, and ultimately for longevity, for health, for the long term, for disease prevention, for results. So if you're wanting to get in control of this and learn what this device is all about, which I'm going to go do, head over to lumen.me/macrohour, so L-U-M-E-N dot me forward slash macrohour, and there's a special offer: use the code MACROHOUR at checkout to get 15% off your purchase. I'm going to check this thing out. I'm interested to see how it is. And shoot, maybe this could even be part of every WarriorBabe VIP's welcome on board, in their box or something like that. Anyway, that's just me brainstorming. Ladies, thank you so much for being here.

Michal: Thank you, Nikkiey.

Merav: Thank you.

Nikkiey: I appreciate you guys so much and you sharing your insight. That was so much fun.

Merav: So much fun. You took the words right out of my mouth.

Nikkiey: Awesome, guys. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for your time. And everybody listening, go check out that code and check out these ladies. Thanks, guys.

Michal: Thanks, Nikkiey. Bye.

Nikkiey: Hey, guys, real quick. If you're interested in taking your body to the next level, losing body fat, building more muscle and feeling more confident, do it alongside one of our 30-plus professional coaches. Work one-on-one with her to eliminate all of the guesswork you may have, and all you need to do is the work she tells you to do to get to those goals of yours. To learn more, click the link below this podcast and apply to our VIP program right now.