How to Recover From Burnout and Rebuild Your Self-Worth

Caleb: There was something outside of my ability to hold my life together that was actually holding my life together. And that experience has really become the foundation of how I live my life now. It's the reminder that when I feel life is inviting me to walk away from what once was and step into what will be, but I'm in that in-between space, that liminal space where it's really scary and unfamiliar and uncertain, there's this reminder: oh, wait, no, there is something outside of my ability holding my life together if I'm just willing to let go.

Nikkiey: What's going on, everybody? Today I have a pretty cool guest here with us. His name is Caleb, and he is a West Point graduate, a former NFL athlete, and now an inspirational speaker helping people navigate life's pressures and transform them into opportunities for growth. We'll dive into his story and his journey. From what I know, he went from the military and professional sports to now personal development and mental resilience, which is incredibly powerful. And he's passionate about helping others redefine success. It's just interesting to hear your story, and it's totally not normal. So we're going to dive into that. Caleb, I'm so excited you're here on the show. Welcome.

Caleb: Thank you for inviting me. I had a chance to go through some of your conversations, and I love the space that you have curated here and the conversations that you're engaging in. So I am excited to be here.

Nikkiey: Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that.

Caleb: Of course.

Nikkiey: So as I was saying, your journey is anything but normal. You went from West Point to the NFL to the work that you do now in the personal development space. Can you take us back to the beginning of your journey and share what led you down this path?

Caleb: Well, it all started one evening. No, not really.

Nikkiey: Great, great.

Caleb: No, it actually did. I tell the story from stage. I don't know if I've told it on too many podcasts, but I was seven years old when I scored a game-winning touchdown in the community-wide all-star championship football game. Now, it's important to know that I'm from Texas. So this was a big deal.

Nikkiey: I am not, actually.

Caleb: Surprisingly, though, the first NFL game I ever played in was at the Cowboys stadium. And so a lot of family and friends were able to show up, which was a cool experience. But I scored that touchdown, and I remember I was scanning the sideline. I was looking for my biggest fan at the time, and you can probably guess who that was. It was my mom. And when my eyes caught my mom's eyes, I remember running as fast as my tired legs could run. I reached my mother, I had this big smile on my face, and she was looking down at me, and she had this really big smile on her face. And my mom, in this moment, said something to me that would go on to heavily influence the next two and a half decades of my life. She said, "Son, I love you so much. I am so proud of you. You scored the game-winning touchdown."

The reason why I say that is because in this innocent moment, with a very proud mother, there was something in me that was taught to believe that my performance in life determines my measure of acceptance in this world. And that experience, performance determines acceptance, was reinforced time and time again throughout my young adult life. Suddenly my stats were no longer just numbers on a piece of paper. My stats were a definition of my worth.

And at about the same time, there was this deep fear that began to surface in my life. It's a fear that probably all of us have been familiar with at some point in time, and that's simply the fear of not being enough. But even at a young age, I had this uncanny ability to compartmentalize the fear and perfect this facade so that, on the outside looking in, I had it all under control. More than that, I was able to source this fear and use it as motivation. And this fear fueled this new performance-driven mindset that took me from scoring touchdowns in the community all-star championship football game to eventually being inducted into the Texas High School Football Hall of Fame.

I got a Division I college football scholarship to play at West Point. My freshman year, I was all-conference. Sophomore year, I had a breakout season and was one of the top collegiate football players in my position across all of college football. My junior year, I had the honor of putting a C on my uniform, which didn't stand for Caleb, which would have been cool, but it stood for captain of the team. And then my senior year, I found myself arguably where every football player at some point in their career dreams about being, and that's in the iconic Radio City Music Hall in New York City, surrounded by 10,000 screaming fans chanting my name, as the commissioner of the NFL, Roger Goodell, was walking to a podium to announce to the screaming fans, and I think it was 36 million people tuning in from their homes, that the Detroit Lions had just selected me in the NFL draft, making me the second player in the history of West Point to ever be selected, and the first player that was given permission to play and serve simultaneously.

And I will always remember that moment. But shortly after getting drafted, I was on national television doing an interview with, at the time, ESPN host Trey Wingo. And Trey looks at me and says, "Caleb, how does it feel? You are America's athlete. You're a West Point graduate. You're an army officer. And now you're an NFL athlete." And I know Trey meant well when he said that, but full transparency, I heard nothing good in that statement. What I heard is: Caleb, failure is not an option. Caleb, you've got to have it together all the time. Caleb, don't you dare be weak, because you are now America's athlete, and 36 million people just watched your story unfold on national television.

So in this moment that should have meant everything to me, there's this heaviness of expectations and pressures that suffocated the joy right out of this experience. And there was a part of me that was already so afraid that if you did see how scared I was, you'd quickly see that I am not who you think I am. But I did what I'd been doing since I was just a young boy: compartmentalizing the fear, perfecting the facade, putting a big smile on my face, looking at Trey and looking into the camera and saying, "I have never been more excited about what's to come," even though that was the furthest thing from my truth. I really did it because I thought that's what a man is supposed to do.

And as you can imagine, all of this pressure and all of this fear began to compound. The more that I suppressed it and repressed it, the more it began to intensify and compound. And that led me down some really deep mental health challenges, where behind closed doors I was having panic attacks and anxiety attacks on a daily basis. But as soon as I opened that door, I put that big smile on my face, and from the outside you saw America's athlete. But behind that polished exterior and the bright smile, again, I was barely holding on.

So here I am at the height of my NFL childhood dream, the height of my success, and honestly, I can't even enjoy it because I feel like I'm too busy trying to survive it. That was essentially my experience through the NFL. I wasn't using all of my energy to get better as much as I was using all of my energy to hold it all together. And eventually I found myself waking up not just with tired eyes, but a tired soul. And I realized that the game I was playing was a losing game. Using all of my energy just to perfect the facade and compartmentalize the fear, eventually it would catch up with me.

At this time in my life, I didn't have the tools or the awareness to manage that pain in a healthy way. And so I started to cope in really unhealthy ways. I remember waking up one morning and looking at my bedside table and seeing the mixture of uppers and downers, and knowing that if something didn't change, and change soon, it was only a matter of time before I would be all over the news for the wrong reasons. And that's when I decided to hang up my cleats and go on this journey. Little did I know what I was saying yes to at the time, but I went on this journey to really discover who Caleb Campbell is apart from the game. How can I show up in life with no more pretenses, no more facades, but lean into vulnerability, embody greater authenticity, and just show up as my whole, expressed self?

Nikkiey: Wow. Well, first off, thank you so much for that vulnerability, opening it right out of the gate and telling your story a little bit more. I think that's going to resonate with a lot of people on levels where maybe they didn't even recognize that they were in the same position that you were once in. So thank you.

Caleb: Of course.

Nikkiey: And that is an incredible journey. So looking back at what you just shared, and unpacking it a little bit more in terms of certain situations, where do you think the biggest defining moments were that shaped you into who you are today?

Caleb: Oh, wow. That's a big question and a good question. I think the early childhood experience played a big role. Ambition is so much a part of who I am today. It just comes from a different motive. It comes from a different place. I just turned 40 this year, and I was telling my wife that I've never felt more excited about my future. I've never felt more connected to my life and more hungry for greater success. But the difference is I don't need it to be okay. It's coming from a place of wholeness rather than a place of deficit. And so I think that early childhood experience was definitely a pivotal and profound moment.

But then I would say the decision that really was the catalyst to changing all of this was walking away from the NFL. I think there is a measure of growth that we are all invited to experience by pushing through the pain, by holding on a little bit tighter, by enduring and continuing to move forward at all costs. There is definitely an invitation to a type of growth through that experience. But there is also a growth that we're invited into that is the byproduct of not trying harder, but actually resisting less and learning how to walk away.

So to paraphrase that, there's always a season of life where growth looks like pushing through. Then there's a season of life where growth looks like walking away. And it wasn't just walking away from a game for me. I was walking away from the way that I had found acceptance and belonging in this world since I was a young boy. This wasn't just a game. This was the oxygen in my lungs, the blood in my veins. And so this was very much a metaphorical death that I was being invited into. I would say that was probably the most profound, impactful moment, and it catalyzed a transformation that would eventually go on to renew every facet of my life.

And the truth is, every one of us wants to experience new life at some point in time. We're always being invited. Soul, spirit, whatever you want to call it, is always inviting us into this next level of expansion, this greater, more fulfilled, more aligned life experience. But the prerequisite is first a death of some sort, first a letting go, a surrendering of some sort. And so this was the first time that I had a head-on collision with this metaphorical death that would be the catalyst allowing me to step into a new life that I'd always dreamed about, just in a way I never imagined.

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Wow. I can resonate with you a lot on that, because a bit of your identity was tied up in the NFL, right? And metaphorically you had a death to that identity, but it allowed you to let go and, as I like to say, let God, or a higher power, whatever everybody believes in, exceed your expectations and give you more than you ever expected.

Caleb: Yeah. The hard part about this, too, is we can't take a course on letting go. We can't read a book on letting go. I remember when I was with the Kansas City Chiefs, and this was my last and final team. I hope you're okay if I tell this story real quick; it just came to my mind. This was at the height of the tension, where it was all coming undone. My life was a pressure cooker, and it was just a matter of time before I was about to spew out in every wrong way possible. A few of the guys after practice invited me to go to a theme park. I hated theme parks at the time, but I was also really hungry for community. I was really hungry for friendship. And so I reluctantly said yes.

I got out of every single ride that scared me. It was just, what a coincidence, my mom is calling. Now my grandma is calling. I'll go buy the beers. Every ride that scared me, I got out of it. And I thought I was home free when we were walking out the back of that theme park. I swear to you, we were probably 100 feet from the exit, getting ready to go to dinner, and I hear one of my teammates say, "No, stop. We're going to do this. Last one, let's do this."

And it's the freaking ride where they're hoisting you up hundreds of feet in the air, and it's just a free fall. You're in this bungee harness, they just drop you, and you've got to go with somebody else. There were six of us, and everybody immediately started saying, "I'm going to go with Zeke. I'm going to go with Shane." And they're like, "Okay, Caleb, you're going to go with me." And I'm like, no, I can't do this. But I didn't want to say no, because then my buddy would not be able to go, or they'd—

Nikkiey: And you ran out of all your outs as well.

Caleb: I ran out of all my outs, right? There's no backing down from this one. And I kid you not, long story short, I'm now in this harness, my friend Zeke is in this harness, and we're hoisted up to the very top. You can see all of Kansas City, and it's beautiful up there, but I am paralyzed by fear. The way this thing worked is there was this contraption up there like a stoplight: red, yellow, green. When it went from red to yellow to green, the person on the inside pulls the cord and you drop. And I was the person on the inside.

Well, that thing went red, yellow, green, and I didn't move. I didn't pull the cord. I was paralyzed. My friend Zeke is yelling and laughing, and he can't see that I've actually got tears in my eyes and I'm legitimately scared. I'm in full-on shutdown mode at the top of this ride. I'll never forget, Zeke looks at me and sees, oh, this is serious, you're not okay. He grabs me by the arm and says, "Caleb, let's just do this together. Let's take a deep breath, pull the cord, let's go home." And it was this moment of compassion where I was like, okay. I took a breath, I shut my eyes, I pulled the cord.

For the first fractions of that second, it was pure fear. I felt the fear. And then, as we were in that free fall, I never felt more free and I never felt more alive in my life. I started to hysterically laugh, and from the laughter came a happy cry. I was just releasing all of this built-up pressure and all of this built-up tension. I never knew what it was about that moment, but it was single-handedly one of the most life-giving experiences I had ever had to that date.

It would take me some time to unpack it. Years later, I realized that was my first experience of what it would feel like if I could just let go in life and allow something outside of my willpower, something outside of my ability, to hold my life together. It was a metaphor for this prophecy that I was being invited to live into. It was an active illustration of pulling the cord, letting go. And only in the fall did I begin to discover that there was something outside of my ability to hold my life together that was actually holding my life together. That experience has really become the foundation of how I live my life now. It's the reminder that when I feel life is inviting me to walk away from what once was and step into what will be, but I'm in that in-between space, that liminal space where it's really scary and unfamiliar and uncertain, there's this reminder: oh, wait, no, there is something outside of my ability holding my life together if I'm just willing to let go.

Nikkiey: Amen to that.

Caleb: Yeah.

Nikkiey: Amen to that. Again, like I said, I can resonate with you. I'm in the middle of the story you just told right now. But instead of being overwhelmed and having all the worries and concerns, thinking what if, or trying to control the whole narrative and the outcome, it's like, hey, just let go. The plan's already written for you.

Caleb: Yeah.

Nikkiey: All the steps. What a journey.

Caleb: Yeah.

Nikkiey: Well, thank you for sharing that. That's a cool story.

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I want to shift gears to more of the military, along with the professional sports side as well. But actually, one side note: you mentioned the Chiefs, and you were on the Lions. How do you feel about the Eagles winning the Super Bowl?

Caleb: Oh, my God.

Nikkiey: I was so thrilled to see them win the Super Bowl. I'm a Philly girl. I'm from Philly.

Caleb: Awesome.

Nikkiey: Yeah, I was elated and thrilled. Nobody wants to see the Chiefs win anymore. Go home.

Caleb: I can't do that.

Nikkiey: You can't be dating Taylor Swift and also winning Super Bowls. Nobody likes the cocky.

Caleb: Yeah, I love that.

Nikkiey: There were things on Instagram where it was like the whole country was rooting for the Eagles.

Caleb: Yeah.

Nikkiey: And a little center was rooting for the Chiefs. But anyway, you had experiences in both the military and the NFL, two worlds that really demand resilience and discipline. How did those experiences shape your views on personal growth?

Caleb: I think that's a great question. I think it actually greatly limited my understanding of growth. What I mean by that is, from a military standpoint and a professional athlete standpoint, the growth that is celebrated is the growth that constantly looks like pushing through, the growth that looks like trying harder, the growth that looks like staying in the game regardless of the cost. And at some point I realized that my growth of pushing through was actually resulting in the abandonment of self. And that would go on to undermine my ability to truly flourish in my life.

The way I like to describe this is when you think of the masculine and the feminine, this is what creates the whole. Not just the military and professional sports, but our culture at large celebrates the masculine. Do more, be more, achieve more. It looks good on an Instagram meme. And it's important. It's really important. It's the way the world operates, the way our culture operates, the way our economy operates. And so there's always this climb on an upward trajectory. Here I am, this is where I want to be. Let's push through the pain, hold on another day, continue to grow at all costs. That's the masculine, and it's important. It's necessary.

But then there's the feminine, which is the growth that comes, like we talked about, not by doing more, but by resisting less. Not by striving, but by surrendering. Not by trying harder, but by trying softer. The growth that comes not by ambition, but by stillness, allowing the stillness to surface the internal shifts: the fear and the grief and the anger and the shame that's hidden and buried behind your pursuit of success. That's an element of growth I had never tapped into until I was willing to walk away and start really uncovering and unearthing the feminine growth that had been abandoned in my pursuit of success, because I was so overly emphasized on solely the masculine.

So to answer your question, the military and professional sports did a great job of honing my ability to cultivate the masculine growth that is necessary and needed, but it's only half the story. And I think there's a reason why I was experiencing the pain point, and I know I'm not alone in this, that no matter how much I did, no matter how much I accomplished, it was never enough. The goalpost to success, the goalpost to happiness, the goalpost to life satisfaction, the sense that I can rest in life, it's finally good, I'm good, that was constantly eluding me. And it's really because I had only one side of the game, and that's the masculine growth. It wasn't until I walked away that I began to reacquaint myself with and rediscover the other side of the story that would allow the whole picture to begin to emerge.

Nikkiey: Wow. That's such a great answer. I love that you dove into the masculine and feminine side of things, because a lot of people will just live in the masculine and not balance it out with the feminine, and vice versa. That's a very powerful perspective to look at it from.

Speaking of resilience, and staying on that topic, I want to transition a little bit to burnout, because it's something that can affect everyone, whether it's in sports, the military, everyday life, or fitness, working out and following the same routine and not seeing the results. From your experience, what are some of the biggest misconceptions people have about burnout?

Caleb: Another great question. This is why your podcast does so well. I want to say burnout is not so much the byproduct of doing too much in your life as it's the byproduct of not having the capacity to hold everything in your life. And so burnout, from my experience, is not an obstacle in the way. I think this is the real big misconception. Burnout's not an obstacle to avoid or overcome; it's an invitation to deepen. It's an invitation to expand. If burnout is knocking on your heart's door, congratulations, soul is inviting you to step into a new measure of growth. The reason we resist it and fight against it is because, again, the growth just looks different.

For me, the greatest thing that's ever happened to me is that I burned out. I can look back at my life and say, oh, wow, you were not the enemy I thought you were. I thought burnout was the thing that was going to prevent me from becoming the man I wanted to become and creating the life I wanted to create. And so I did everything I could to beat burnout. I would work a little bit harder. I'd hold on a little bit tighter. I'd do all of the mindset activities and all of the affirmation journals and do my best to breathe through the day. I would try to build this impenetrable mindset that could not be shaken no matter what I was facing in life. And I realized I was fighting against my own expansion. I was resisting my own expansion.

The burnout was here to teach me how to reconnect. It was here to teach me how to no longer survive my life, but participate with my life. I like to say that life is a river, and the river is already flowing. The river is already moving, but we fail to recognize that. So I spent years of my life pushing the river of my life. I don't know if you know this, but pushing a river does not make the river go faster. What I've realized on the other side of burnout, and I've only experienced this because of my burnout, is that what life is asking of me is no longer to push the river, but to learn how to rest in the river and allow the natural current to flow and move my life forward with greater ease and greater effortlessness. And these paradigm shifts have all happened not in spite of burnout, but because of my burnout.

Nikkiey: Yeah. The thing I took away from you right there is that when you experience burnout, it's a time to go deeper and ask yourself: what are you experiencing? How are you feeling? A lot of people's rooted insecurities come from not being enough. And if they're able to sit with the feelings that are arising, it can give them a—

Caleb: A lot of people are not willing to sit.

Nikkiey: Yes.

Caleb: That's what I had to ask myself. Is my pursuit of success really about the success, or is it more about the avoidance of stillness?

Nikkiey: Oh, can you unpack that a little bit? That's some juice right there.

Caleb: Yeah. When I walked away from the NFL and moved to Canada, I became a janitor of an organization. I slept on the basement floor of a boiler room for the next five years of my life. I cleaned bathrooms, I vacuumed floors, and I did it in exchange for free therapy. And I remember walking into a therapy session one afternoon, and I had had it. It was one of those moments I alluded to earlier. It seemed like no matter what I did, where I went, or how much I accomplished, the life I had was not the life I wanted. And the distance between the two was mirroring back one of two things: either I had not worked hard enough or accomplished enough yet, or, worse, there was something intrinsically wrong with me. Either way, I was waking up the type of tired that more sleep doesn't solve.

I walked into this session with my therapist, and she asked me a question that would go on to change the trajectory of my life. She said, "Caleb, have you ever considered that finding the life that you want has less to do with what you accomplish, less to do with external success, and more to do with your internal wholeness?" This was mind-blowing for me at the time. I was like, what are you talking about? I laughed out loud because I thought she was joking, and then I realized, no, she's dead serious. I'm laughing alone. And then I got angry, because what I heard is: you're telling me all of the success doesn't matter.

The part of my story that I didn't tell is that on the day of my first NFL contract signing, I'm talking two hours before signing my first NFL contract and starting my rookie season, the United States government flew in a person from the Department of Defense to notify me and the Detroit Lions that the policy they had implemented that was allowing me to play and serve simultaneously no longer existed. It had been rescinded two weeks prior, but nobody notified me or the team until the day of my contract signing. I was ordered to return to active duty immediately. After serving my country for two and a half years, if I could get a new NFL contract, I could make my way back to the NFL. I don't know if you know this, but getting an NFL contract is kind of difficult, not to mention after being out of the game for two years.

However, for the next two and a half years, I had 5 a.m. PT sessions with my unit, military training and classroom work in the morning, field exercises in the afternoon. And when everybody else went home, I went back to the gym for two and a half hours every night. I put in the work so that if the opportunity did land in my lap once again, I would be ready. And sure enough, two and a half years later, I was the biggest, fastest and strongest I've ever been, got offered a new NFL contract, and made my way back to the NFL.

So when my therapist is telling me this, I'm like, wait, you're telling me all of the grit, all of the perseverance, all of the resilience through the self-doubt, the holding on and holding out, none of that mattered? All I had to do this entire time to find the life I'm looking for is to be whole? Are you kidding me? And she looked at me, and I'll never forget it, she had this—

Nikkiey: Very much in your masculine state.

Caleb: Oh, very much. Right. Very much. And she had this face full of compassion, and I will always remember her eyes looking into my eyes. She said, "Caleb, that's not what I'm saying. Success is important. Hard work, dedication, resilience, grit, it's all part of the process. But what I am saying is that you'll never be satisfied and proud of the life that you have until you're satisfied and proud of who you are."

Nikkiey: Your self-worth. Mind-blowing.

Caleb: Yeah. And I was like, oh. It clicked. And I had to sit with it, and we continued to meet about this. I realized that this next evolution of growth wasn't about the next win. It wasn't about bigger or better. It wasn't about changing my life externally. It was about going internally and really sitting with why this was so important to begin with. Because in my pursuit of success, in my pursuit of personal development, I had lost myself. I had abandoned myself. It was all driven by this idea and expectation of who I wanted to be and where I wanted to be, with a refusal to accept who I am and where I am. So I realized this next tier of growth, this next evolution of expansion I was being invited to step into, wasn't about external success as much as it was about internal wholeness.

And that's when I realized that my entire pursuit of this idea of life, where I was so convinced that if I could just get there I would find what I was looking for, wasn't about football. It wasn't about the goal. It wasn't about the success. It was driven by the fear of not being enough, the fear of stillness, because in the stillness I would have to face that I'm not enough as I am today, where I am today. But that was the greatest opportunity for growth in that moment. And it wasn't until I got still enough to start leaning into the discomfort of that moment that my life began to expand in some of the most unimaginable ways.

Nikkiey: I love that you went that deep and shared that much on that specific topic of avoiding stillness. I love to give takeaways to the listeners on this podcast. So for anyone who could be experiencing this type of insecurity and not even recognizing it, or maybe they're recognizing it right now, what can they do leaving this podcast to feel more confident sitting in stillness? What were some of the tactics and tools that you used?

Caleb: Hire a good therapist. No, no, no. When I was in Canada, the work I started with was practical CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. Then I got into more parts work, realizing that within us as a whole person, there are multiple parts. I've got a performer part. I've got an addict part. I've got a perfectionist part. I've got a producer part. I've got all of these different parts. And then I got into a lot of healing around my nervous system, understanding the role of the nervous system. Honestly, while all of these different modalities are necessary and important in their own way, and parts work is still a very instrumental modality I engage in today, understanding and befriending my nervous system has really been the holy grail for me in all of this.

What I mean by that is, to be able to sit in the stillness and be present with what surfaces, we have to have the nervous system capacity to handle that stillness. So the question is, how can I begin to take tolerable, conscious steps, leaning into the discomfort of my life and recentering myself in the midst of that discomfort, so that I can show my nervous system: hey, we're safe. We've got this. We're okay. You can be brave. You can feel the tension of uncertainty. You can lean into vulnerability. You can feel exposed, because you have the capacity. You've developed this internal sense of safety that allows you to be present with all of these deeply uncomfortable experiences.

What I realized when I was just starting out is that I still had the nervous system of a six-year-old boy. I was a grown-ass adult with a 19-inch neck, and I had the nervous system of a six-year-old boy. And this six-year-old boy was fucking scared. He was terrified. And so he used success. He used perfectionism. He used self-criticism. He used control to maintain a sense of safety and security in his life. And if I was going to increase my tolerance for discomfort, which is the prerequisite for expansion, for growth, I was going to have to train and teach this little boy: we're okay. We are not back where we used to be when life was really hard. I know you're scared, but I'm different now. I can show you that we are safe today.

The thing about the nervous system is you can't tell it shit. You have to show it. So what are the moments in your life, the very moments when you're feeling that insecurity, when you're feeling the fear drip into your life from the unknown of what's ahead, the uncertainty that surrounds you? In that very moment, when it's starting to feel tense and slightly overwhelming and you're about to reach for a drink or start some sort of self-sabotage, which, listen, it's not self-sabotage, we can talk about that being self-protection—

Nikkiey: Or even distracting yourself.

Caleb: Exactly. How can you, just for one moment, say "I'm safe," to recenter yourself, to self-regulate in that moment? Because every time you do that, and believe me, when you first start doing this, it doesn't feel like it's changing anything. It's like, this doesn't work, moving on. But it is. You're building your regulation muscles. And every time you do that, you increase your capacity to be a little bit more still in life, regardless of the chaos around you, to hold the tension of the unknown and not spiral. You're able to navigate the liminal spaces, those in-between spaces of what was and what will be, and allow the tension to expand your ability to hold what's coming in your life. That nervous system work is, again, I feel like the holy grail for everything. So that would be my main takeaway: how do you befriend your nervous system and teach it that it is safe in the most vulnerable moments of life?

Nikkiey: Wow, that's a huge and great takeaway. The way I think of it is, like you just said, you've got to almost put yourself in those situations, in the uncomfortableness, or when you feel the tension rising, and allow yourself to stay there rather than doing what you're used to doing, distracting yourself or whatever it might be.

Caleb: Yeah, just be there. And this is why parts work has become so instrumental in my life. For the longest time, and still today, when I'm feeling really uncertain, like in my business right now, I feel like I'm in an evolution with keynote speaking. I'm being invited to step into this next tier of growth, and what once worked no longer works the way it once did. So I'm feeling a little bit of a downshift in my life, and that's vulnerable. I'm self-employed, I've got a life to sustain, I've got two beautiful kids and a beautiful soulmate that I provide for. So it feels vulnerable.

What I was saying with that is, naturally, when I'm feeling vulnerable, the parts of me, that perfectionist and that performer, will come online and operate on steroids. My perfectionist will come online, and I will do everything to perfect my rhythms, to perfect my frameworks, to perfect every part of my business, and double down. And my performer will come online, and I will start hitting the sales meetings as hard as I can, because I'm trying to protect that little boy who feels so fragile and so vulnerable. But what that little boy doesn't need is somebody to come around and say, "I'm going to take care of this and make sure we're set up for life." No, that little boy needs to grow up. That little boy needs to mature. That little boy needs to learn how to feel safe in the midst of all of the tension and all of the uncertainty.

So I'll have full conversations with him. I'm not exaggerating: I will put a chair in front of me and put one of my daughter's stuffed animals in that chair, and that stuffed animal will be little boy Caleb. I will have a very frank, vulnerable and heartfelt conversation. And then I will switch: what does the little boy want to say to adult Caleb? This is something that has taken a lot of practice, and it's still deeply uncomfortable, but it's been monumentally transformational.

Nikkiey: A lot of people listening to this could think that it sounds hard to do, to put yourself in those types of situations, to sit in meditation and go back to your six-year-old, or for me it was my seven-year-old. I've shared this publicly on my podcast, working with an energy healer, and being able to go back to that seven-year-old or six-year-old. It's only as hard as you make it, right? Being able to, like you're explaining and sharing, sit in the moment and envision that person and what that child needs, and then vice versa, how they would respond. It's so cool that you just shared that tactic, which I really appreciate.

Caleb: Yeah. Real quick, I do want to say that I don't want to undermine anyone's trauma. But for somebody out there listening to this who berates themselves and beats themselves up because sitting still and going back to those moments and being with that little boy or little girl seems impossible because of what you experienced: your pain is valid. And yes, of course it's hard. Of course going back would be terribly uncomfortable, and I don't blame you for not wanting to be there. I don't blame you at all. I couldn't imagine some of the experiences that people have had, and going back just doesn't seem feasible. So if that's somebody who's listening, I see you. I honor that pain. And it's small, small, small, tolerable steps. And none of this works without self-compassion. None of this works. Don't turn your healing into another performance before you can finally be good enough.

Nikkiey: Facts.

Caleb: Right? Do not do that. It's these small moments of self-compassion. Every time you show up and every time you just attempt to lean into that discomfort and that vulnerability, you are making progress, and that should be celebrated.

Nikkiey: I saw something on your Instagram, actually. I think it was in the beginning of January, where you had a quote or a statement about getting more curious and approaching yourself with nonjudgment.

Caleb: I've got to say that. Thanks for reminding me. I needed to hear that.

Nikkiey: It's like when those moments arise, or if you're ever going to go on this journey of looking back and figuring out where things need to be addressed from early on in your life, approach it with curiosity and not judgment.

Caleb: Always. Like, oh, that's interesting that I would respond in that way. What's there? What can I unpack there? Oh, this is interesting that I'm feeling this way. It's the judgment of good or bad that creates the tension. It really does. When you think about our emotional experiences, when I'm feeling overwhelmed, when I'm feeling afraid, I naturally want to judge it. And then I see that as a reflection of my inadequacy. What I tell myself is, if I was further along in life, I wouldn't be dealing with this. And that doesn't help anyone. It definitely doesn't help me. But when I can say, oh, wow, that's interesting that I'm experiencing this tension, or this fear, or this insecurity, or this self-doubt, what do you have to say? It's Rumi's poem, The Guest House. When these very uncomfortable emotions are knocking on your heart's door, invite them in. Give them a seat at the table. Dialogue with them. Listen to them. Hear what they have to say. They might be sharing some wisdom.

Nikkiey: I love that. This is so good. I appreciate your insight and your knowledge on these topics, and more importantly, your experience. You've been through it, and sharing this from the other side is really cool. I want to continue talking about the topic of growth. Lasting change is something a lot of people struggle with. In your experience, what separates those who sustain transformation, like you living through your experiences with a different mindset, from those who don't? I think about commitment checks along the way. God, or a higher power, will throw a commitment check at you: do you want this real transformation? Do you want this higher self you're working towards? And some people will revert back to their old habits, their old identity, their old self, or their insecurities will take over more than they work through them. In your experience, what separates those who sustain the transformation from those who revert back to their old habits?

Caleb: I think I hear the heartbeat behind your question. And I think the answer is those who are willing to just keep an open heart through it all. Even if you're reverting back, I'm here to tell you it's okay. Maybe for some people who are really David Goggins type, Jocko, growth-oriented folks—

Nikkiey: Yeah.

Caleb: That growth is all about measurable growth. But you know what? Reverting back to your old identity, reverting back to your old habits, and then recognizing that you reverted back: congratulations, that's growth. Because at one point you reverted back and you didn't recognize it.

Nikkiey: That's so good. I love that.

Caleb: So great, you're growing. It doesn't look the way you expected it to, but throw out that damn map and realize that, and this is my motto, what is, is your greatest teacher. So if you are reverting back, that is what it is. That's your teacher. Keep an open heart. If you are leaning into this next evolution of growth and you're very aware that you're not where you used to be, and you're stepping over this threshold into something new, that new thing is starting to mirror back to you as your teacher. So wherever you are in life, life has a billion and one ways to get you to where you are going. Our job is to keep an open heart through it all. If you can keep an open heart, yeah, get frustrated, get angry, slam the door, give up on yourself. But tomorrow, when the sun rises and you hear the birds chirping because spring is on the horizon, new life is here. Just keep an open heart.

And I think the real big thing to say along with that is acceptance. There's this willingness to accept what is as your greatest teacher. Don't fight against it. Don't cling to ideas of where you think you're supposed to be or what you think growth should look like for you. Accept what is. That is your greatest teacher. A lot of people are afraid to accept because it looks like resignation. It looks like weakness. It looks like giving up. But acceptance is the greatest demonstration of faith. I'm accepting who I am and where I am.

Going back to your question early on about these profound moments of growth and what changed everything: when I was living in Los Angeles, I had a moment on June 3rd, 2019, and I actually have a tattoo of it. I'm sitting on the beach, and it was the first time in my life that I realized the growth I was being invited into wasn't trying to build this big personal brand, which I was after. The growth I was being invited into was learning how to accept where I am and who I am. At first I thought that was me waving the white flag and giving up. But what I've realized is that it was through this experience of acceptance that I was able to befriend and face the fear of never seeing what I wanted to see in my life. And as a result, I experienced unparalleled growth through acceptance. That acceptance was the greatest demonstration of faith in my life, and therefore the greatest opportunity for transformation. So what is your greatest teacher? Accept who you are and where you are, and you'll be surprised at how life unfolds for you.

Nikkiey: I love that. I want to pull out what you said about having all of these performances. You were showing up, you had confidence and the skills, you were self-confident, right? But the thing that wasn't getting the attention was the self-worth. Have you read the book by Jamie Kern Lima called Worthy?

Caleb: I have not.

Nikkiey: It's what you're explaining. It's so good. She wrote it first.

Caleb: Okay. I'll check it out.

Nikkiey: Yeah, it's so good. She talks about the difference between self-confidence and self-worth. As a performer, you sought out your worth through stats, as you were explaining. You gained self-confidence. You knew you had skill sets. You knew you had specific characteristics and traits. But at the end of the day, that stuff doesn't matter, like your therapist was telling you. What matters is the self-worth, who you are and your values.

Caleb: And this is why the healing journey is so necessary. The motto in our house is: we're held. We're held. And the reason I can say that is because the healing journey has been this downward descent. It's been the letting go. It's been the surrendering. It's been accepting what is. It's giving up all of the ways I think my life is going to change or where I want my life to be. When you accept what is, you start to go through life and you realize, again, as I alluded to earlier, that there is something holding my life together. And I can trust that. I can't read that. I can't learn that. But I can trust that because I lived into it.

There is a confidence that emerges from that felt experience. It's called kinesthetic knowing. It's the first knowing we are introduced to, and it happens in the womb. When we are in the womb, biologically, we are being told that there is something outside of us providing life, holding us, that is the source of our beingness. There is something outside of us holding it all together. When we're born into this world, we are separated from this kinesthetic knowing, but our body remembers it. And that's what we ache for. We long for this reintroduction to this knowing that is biologically embedded in us from the time we are in the womb. That's why the deepening and the letting go and the feminine and the healing journey are so important, because it's a reintroduction to what we once knew but had lost and buried under the weight of life.

And I say that because, think about this: what would you not try? What would you not do? What chances would you not take if you truly knew that your life was being held by something greater than you? Just let that sit with everyone for a second.

Nikkiey: Wow. This has been a very, very powerful conversation, Caleb, and I just want to thank you for your time being here with us. Before we wrap up, is there one key lesson or piece of advice you'd want listeners to take away from your journey?

Caleb: Are you familiar with the poet David Whyte?

Nikkiey: No.

Caleb: Actually, we're not going to quote David Whyte. We'll quote Rilke. Rilke says, "If you could just trust the heaviness of your life, then you too could rise up rooted like trees." What I would love for people to walk away with is to trust the heaviness. The heaviness is not something that needs to be escaped, transcended or grown out of. The heaviness is the gift. If you're willing to befriend it and trust it, it is deepening you. It is rooting you, and you too will rise up rooted like a tree.

Nikkiey: I love that so much. Thank you so much for being here and joining us today, and for sharing your wisdom, your perspective, your journey and your stories. I think it's so profound when someone has already walked the walk, and somebody else may be back at page three to your page 100. They can feel inspired: hey, if Caleb did it, then I can do it too. Even though this is a very female-heavy listening group, ladies, if you're listening to this, I'm taking it in too, and a lot of your words and perspectives can totally be flipped to the female perspective.

Caleb: Absolutely.

Nikkiey: I love that. So yeah, guys, thank you. And thank you, listeners, for being here. I appreciate you tuning in. Caleb, thank you for being here and sharing your story. I appreciate your time.

Caleb: Thank you for having me.

Nikkiey: Really quick as we wrap up this episode: first of all, I hope you gained so much value from listening to Caleb's story and his perspectives. So many of his insights were so powerful, so much so that I personally forgot to ask him at the end of the episode where we could follow him on social media and absorb more of his content, and also about the programs he has to offer, if you're interested. If you want to follow him and look at his programs, the links are in the description. But I'll also say it here for you right now: on Instagram, you can find him at caleb underscore campbell. And for his website with the programs he offers, which include one-on-one coaching, a day of coaching, or even group work, go to www.calebcampbell.me forward slash deepening. That's where you can find him, follow him, and be immersed in even more of his content. I hope you enjoyed that episode, and I'll see you in the next one.