How to Stop Yo-Yo Dieting: Macros, Bulking and Mindset

Nikkiey: Real quick, the only ask I could ever have of you guys is to help spread the word so we can help more women lose body fat, build muscle, reach their goals, and feel insanely confident. And the only way we can do that is if you rate, review, and share this podcast. So the single thing I ask you to do is leave a review. It will take you 10 seconds, and it will mean the absolute world to me and may change the world of someone else.

Nikkiey: Was that the picture from 2016 where you were 126 pounds to 2023 where you were 142 pounds?

Guest: Yeah. So I went through some phases, but the 126 was when I was my leanest, when I had my six-pack. And then I cut down to what you said. I actually didn't have a lot of muscle. So I cut down and there wasn't a lot of muscle there. And I realized, yeah, I needed to add the muscle.

And so then I did end up going into a bulk. I think that was probably 2017, 2018, when I did my powerlifting competition and really added. I went from 126 to 147, 148 and really did it. And then I was able to cut back down so that I could get into my weight class for my powerlifting competition. But yeah, bulks are hard mentally and physically, but they're awesome.

Nikkiey: Yeah. So there are two things right there that I mainly want to unpack. One, I want to get to the scale in a second, because obviously it's a very similar story. I was 140, dropped down to 120, and now I weigh 155. So I want to talk about that number with you. But first, let's talk about that mindset, because I know a lot of women in the community that I have, WarriorBabe. We teach bulking, but we teach it in the sense that it is a mental game that you're going to go through. But if you want to build muscle and you have a smaller frame, jumpstart, accelerate results, right? Put yourself in that phase for a little bit so you can build muscle at an optimal rate.

So talk to me about that mindset that you had to endure while you went through that.

Guest: Yeah. It's super counterintuitive for most women to intentionally gain weight. That just blows their mind. Your goal is to have the scale go up? That makes no sense at all. It goes against the last 50 years of Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, all of the things.

Nikkiey: That's right.

Guest: But I think the first thing to break down there, and this gets into that scale mentality, is the reason people just cannot grasp that is because they have taken fat and weight and collapsed them down together. And they've said, if the scale goes up, that means I've gained fat. And if the scale goes down, that means I've lost fat, which is not actually the case. You can lose weight and gain weight without having any fat leave or enter your body. And so when we can start to break that apart and help women understand that the scale is a data point, it gives us some information, but not a clear picture of what's going on, which is why we include lots of data points.

Then we can start to separate that idea of why would you ever want to add weight? Well, because when I'm adding weight, my goal is not to add fat. My goal is to add muscle. And yes, some fat's going to come along with it. That's the expense of doing a bulk. You're going to hopefully maximize muscle gain and hopefully minimize fat gain, but there's going to be some fat along with it. So when you start to understand, oh, you're wanting to add weight on the scale because your goal is to add more muscle, people can start to wrap their head around that process a little bit more. Okay, now I see why you actually wanted to see the scale going up, because you wanted to add more muscle to your body.

Nikkiey: Yeah. And damn, that picture, guys, definitely check it out. We'll have her Instagrams and all the things below the podcast. But that picture was so cool to see, and you're still an athletic figure, right? It's not like you gained fat. You gained muscle. And boy, is that muscle present when you give that flex. I know that you've been through it. You've shared being 20 pounds underweight. You've shared being 30 pounds overweight and an all-or-nothing mindset, to now finding a totally simplified approach, which has made you so much happier with your physique, your health and your mindset.

I personally want to hear more of your journey, and I know the listeners want to hear that as well. So can you take us along your journey and share with us why fitness is just so important to you?

Guest: For sure. Absolutely. So I would say I got into fitness seriously when I was 20. People are always surprised to hear this. I did not play a sport growing up. I played one season of soccer when I was in middle school and it was far too much running. I don't know why I didn't anticipate that. There was a lot of running in soccer, and I was like, well, we're done with this.

So I don't really qualify that as having played a sport. But my parents are former military. So my dad always had a home gym and he always lifted. So that was what I saw growing up. It was just lifting weights. My mom always did, I don't know if you remember, the at-home VHS workouts, like Buns of Steel, The Firm. So that was my intro when I was 16, 17. But when I got to college, I really wanted to start lifting weights, because I would look at the pictures of Nicole Wilkins and Erin Stern and Alicia Marie and all the OGs in Oxygen Magazine and Muscle & Fitness Hers.

And I'd tear them out and put them up in my dorm room, and I finally started learning how to lift weights. I had a guy friend of mine take me around the weight room, and that was what made me fall in love with it. And what's so crazy is that prior to getting into fitness, I never struggled with my weight. In my teen years, I never had a hard time staying thin. I was just naturally always thin.

And I remember thinking, I'm very grateful I don't have to worry about that, because I had to worry about my skin. But getting into fitness was actually what created such a poor pattern of eating for so long, because it made me obsessed with food. I hired my first personal trainer when I was 21. So I started learning to lift at 20. At 21, I hired a personal trainer because I wanted to do a figure show. And turns out, I didn't actually want to compete in bodybuilding. I wanted to look like I did. And that's a very important distinction when people ask, oh, should I do a show?

It's like, well, do you want to compete? Or do you just want to look like you compete? Because you're going to have a dramatically different mental outcome if you're only getting into this because you want to look a certain way. So that was me. I didn't really care about the competition piece. I just wanted to look like that. But with my intro into the knowledge of how to eat, I went from eating NutriGrain bars to following a contest prep diet. So I always associated that with healthy eating. I thought, oh, well, this is what I have to do to lose weight. So I was so emotionally attached to this contest prep diet for years, because I didn't know any other way to lose weight.

So what I fell into was this horrible cycle of restricting for weeks and months on end. And then when I would mentally break, I would binge, and then I would mentally spiral into depression. And then I would get my shit together and go back into restricting again. So that's how I ended up there. I was either 20 pounds underweight or 30 pounds overweight. I didn't always shift that dramatically in my weight, but I definitely was constantly in a state of yo-yoing. I was either gaining weight or losing weight.

It was one or the other. And that was my entire 20s. So I got certified as a strength coach through the Poliquin Strength Institute. If you're familiar with Charles Poliquin, he passed away a few years ago, but he has a strength institute in Rhode Island. And I got certified there after I graduated, because I have a degree in art. I studied art in school. But as I fell in love with lifting, I thought, well, I want to learn as much as possible, because if I can cram as much information into my brain, then maybe I'll get shredded. That was my whole knowledge base: okay, I'll just learn as much as I can.

And what's so ironic is that I was gaining all this knowledge. I was getting certified. I had certification after certification, course after course, seminar after seminar. And I still couldn't figure out how to lose weight. I couldn't figure out how to get lean. No one ever taught me macros.

Nikkiey: Seriously. Key word.

Guest: I was eating all the right foods. They say eat a handful of nuts for a snack. Eat avocado. Eat whole eggs. Cook everything in coconut oil.

All of those are fats. And fats are more than twice as calorically dense as carbs. At the time, I wasn't even paying attention to that. So I went from eating this diet plan to falling into the paleo thing. And all the while, the diet plan didn't teach me how to eat, because it's just: eat these things. It's not: learn what is in this. It's: go follow this plan. And then I became emotionally attached to it. And after that it was paleo, because it's like, oh, well, as long as you eat healthy foods, you don't need to worry about how much you eat, which is a lie.

Because eating for health and eating for weight loss are two totally different things, right? They need to be blended. But it took me until I was probably 28 years old to figure that out, when someone finally said, you just need to track your macros. And all I want you to do is focus on your calories and your protein and let your carbs and fats fluctuate. And that blew my mind, because for the longest time I was so obsessive about those numbers. What's the right number of carbs? What's the right number of fats? Surely that matters. I have to make sure all the numbers are perfect.

I believed there was this magical formula and I hadn't cracked the code yet. And lo and behold, when I started tracking my calories and protein, letting my carbs and fats fluctuate, and eating healthy food 90% of the time, it became really easy.

Nikkiey: And it's such a simplified approach. Oh my God. Let me tell you, I know you understand this completely, and probably a lot of listeners do as well. When you go through the wringer of trying every diet under the sun, keto, carb cycling, diet plans, paleo, and you finally get to, oh, just calories and protein. Surely that's not it.

Guest: Yeah.

Nikkiey: Surely it's more complicated. And it's really not.

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Nikkiey: Why compete?

Guest: The glam.

Nikkiey: The glam. Okay. No, seriously. You pulled it off well.

Guest: The feeling. No, seriously though. The feeling of stepping up on stage, all made up, with your hair done, in a very shiny, nice bikini, showing off what you built. And I think from the very get-go I was very aligned with the fact that people are different. And if you are one of those who make up your mind to go up and stand there and say, hey, judge me in comparison to the others, you need to be okay with that.

And all I could do was, okay, just bring your A game. It doesn't matter how everyone else is looking. If they like you, they're going to give you good points.

Nikkiey: Love that.

Guest: I just always enjoyed the feeling of having a date to work really hard to get to my best shreddedness, or just best shape. Because in figure, it's not always about being the most shredded. You need to be so symmetrical, so balanced. You have to have the way of being. You need to have the aura. And then you have to be ripped in the right places, I guess. I was never the most ripped.

Nikkiey: But for the four wins that you did win, they judged you basically on your symmetry, right? And the level of leanness you brought to the stage compared to the other girls.

Guest: Yeah.

Nikkiey: So I know there is a decent number of people listening to this podcast who are interested in bodybuilding or have done bodybuilding, and they have questions about some of the aspects you mentioned there. So I want to unpack a couple of things. When you talk about leading up to the show, you said that was one of the reasons you love stepping on stage, right? It was second to the glam. You're going to put in the work for the weeks and months to get ready to step on stage. What do you experience in that time frame?

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Guest: Everything. You experience absolutely everything about yourself and about other people, and especially about your body. Our beings are so unique and so cool. And at some point in time, to really put yourself to the test of doing uncomfortable things is so self-developing. It's just top-tier level. For me, it was just, okay, I'm going to challenge myself. Because that is what bodybuilding is about. Because, as I said, you can never compare yourself to others.

Because you don't know what the judges are like. But during that time of getting there, there's going to be so much work on yourself to be able to cope with the different things. Because there are going to be days when you feel like, wow, I am not heading in the right direction. Or, today I'm so tired and I still need to put in the work. I still need to do my normal daily job if you're not a professional. So it's a lot to actually handle and take care of.

Nikkiey: And that's really hard. You're learning so much about yourself. You're learning so much about your mindset. You're learning so much about what you're fully capable of. And I think, elaborating on that too, it's a lonely road, unless you have friends or a boyfriend or somebody who knows what you're going through. It's you versus you every single day.

Guest: So I actually do think that many people rely too much on other people. We are an animal that moves in groups, and I'm totally fine with that. But I just think that if we focus on ourselves first, and I know that sounds very selfish, but let's keep going here, because it's not. If you just focus on the things that you need for your being to feel good, to be balanced, you will take care of other people way better. And you will be able to handle the problems that come your way so much better. And stress will not agonize you in the same way as if you are not in a good place.

And I think that people around you will always be super important. I've always been so blessed with the people I have around me, because they are such amazing human beings. But that also makes me want to be a better person too, which makes me need to focus on myself to make sure that I can greet them the same way that they greet me.

So a competition diet is an extreme diet. It's not something I recommend to anyone who is not willing to actually go the full length of uncomfortableness. Because it is uncomfortable.

Nikkiey: Amen, sister. It's freaking uncomfortable. Say that louder. Say that louder for the audience.

Guest: It is so uplifting too. Because it's when you understand that you are capable of doing something like that that you're like, holy shit, Sherlock, life ain't too bad. And this is something that I chose for myself, so I'd better not whine about it. Honestly.

Nikkiey: Dude. Oh my God, babe. Spot on there. If there's anything to take away from a competition prep and the journey that you're on, it is definitely learning and uncovering your best self. And if you're going to take it seriously, like you said, it's uncomfortable and you have to take it seriously. If you're going to go to the extreme, go to the extreme, full send, be proud of yourself for going that far, stepping on stage and doing all of the things.

But if you do stick to it, you get ready in the right way, and you're there giving your best when you step on stage, not only do you learn so much about yourself, but man, there's so much discipline in those daily actions that you build for yourself. Don't you feel like that's literally why you're as successful as you are now, still maintaining your body? You've most likely built some of those discipline habits during competition that carry through your whole lifestyle.

Guest: If you are working out to undo calories, that is something you need to look at. And I think there are so many women who think, I need to go to the gym because I had Mexican last night. You can't look at it that way. Exercise is something you get to do, not something you have to do. And that was another thing when I was in my mess. That's how I looked at it: I have to get a workout in. Now it's, I get to go for a walk. And I'm maintaining my weight this way because I'm not living in this complete state of obsession and stress and cortisol, which is a hormone that makes you hold on to fat.

And my whole life was cortisol, because I would pull up menus on the way to a restaurant to make sure there was a salad I would eat, or only stay in hotels that had a gym open 24 hours, so if we were on vacation I could get in a workout. That's where my mind was at. And when you just calm the F down, and it sounds scary to not live your life that way, but I'm telling you, when I lived my life that way, I was 20 pounds heavier. There is something to be said about just honoring your hunger cues, calming down, listening to your body, having your body trust you again, and not having all that cortisol.

And your body will just start to work for you again. You have to trust me. I know it doesn't sound right, like, oh, eat whatever you want. But you won't want to binge when anything is allowed, because it's like, I don't need to eat all the cookies. I can have a cookie later. And then you don't want it as much. It worked for me.

Nikkiey: Yeah, exactly. Spot on there. And you said too, for when that happens and we have the cookies, we have the things, I just tell people, just have some more protein for the rest of the day.

Guest: Yes. It's not over.

Nikkiey: It's not over. You can balance it out.

Guest: Yes. It's not over. Think of what you can add. Like, add a salad. Don't think of what you have to take away.

Nikkiey: Exactly. Oh, I love that.

Guest: And don't totally go off the rails because you had a cookie. It's not going to be that impactful.

Nikkiey: You're making it impactful by 10x-ing it.

Guest: You have one. But if you just have one, it doesn't need to turn into a binge, because it's just a cookie. Take it off the pedestal.

Nikkiey: Yeah. So you brought that pin back, which I appreciate, because I want to talk about the exercise calories. Wow. There are so many people who do that.

Guest: Of course.

Nikkiey: You're a perfect example. Mexican the night before. Fuck, I screwed up. I need to go burn all this shit off the next day. And it just doesn't do their body any good at all. That's not the mindset.

Guest: And it's such a shift from how I lived for so long. Literally calculating. It doesn't work. You can't cancel it out. I was 20 pounds heavier when I was canceling out the calories I burned on an elliptical. So it doesn't even work.

And you're just stressing and obsessing. And I had PTSD about macros. Learning my macros changed everything. I learned I was under-eating and I learned I eat too much sugar. So now I'm cognizant of those two things. But I'm not living by the MyFitnessPal calculation and how many grams, and bringing my food everywhere. And I know women who live that way and they are miserable. I live in the middle. Squats and margaritas: I'm going to have a cocktail, but I'm also going to work out the next day. I'm not bringing my food everywhere and calculating my macros.

But I am still going to move my body. And this has worked for me. So if there's a woman who is restricting and living and dying by her macros, it's important, but you can't be obsessive about it, because then that's the cortisol, and your body is just not going to trust you. And once you get to a place where it does trust you again, you can maintain your life and still be happy.

Hannah: But it's been insane to me. I've lost so many followers, which is okay, because I think a lot of people who did follow me didn't follow me for motherhood. A lot of people were following me for the Hannah Eden who showed up in Iceland and went fucking monster mode. And that's okay if there aren't things we can relate to at this stage. But I caught myself questioning: should I post this? Is this what my audience wants to see? And then I had this rude wake-up call: that's not how you got here. You never curated yourself to fit inside someone else's box. You just did what was true and aligned to your life. So right now I'm pregnant. Right now I'm going through this. So this is something I need to stay true to. And if that means there's loss on some sides, that's great.

But the engagement's gone up, because the people who do relate are far more interested in this truth, in this reality, in this experience. But I've had so much hate, dude. I've had so much mean stuff. And I'd be lying if I said it doesn't affect me. Like, what are you doing to your child? Because I'm still doing box jumps or still doing intense exercise: you're going to kill your baby. Some freaking brutal stuff. And times have changed. I'm a fitness professional. I would never do anything to put my unborn child's life at risk. So I'm trying to navigate that whole world and grow that thick skin again.

Because I've never had that much hate on social media. It's wild to hear and see what some people will say.

Nikkiey: It's kind of crazy. Keyboard ninjas, man. They're out. It sucks. But at the same time, you really know yourself, and you're very strong in understanding who you are. And I think what you just shared there is really inspiring. I know I've felt that way too. I have some freaking trolls who are like, you're on steroids. I'm like, wow, it's just such hardcore shit that comes down the pipeline.

Or I look like a man. I'm like, okay, cool. What are you struggling with?

Hannah: Right, right, right. And honestly, looking at that whole concept, which I have done a lot of inner work on, I think there's a lot of projection of fear. Of what someone is unable to do themselves. So they just doubt that you'd ever be able to do it either. So there must be steroids involved here, that's not possible. No. It just takes a lot of really hard work and discipline that maybe you're not willing to put in to see your body or your results get there. So I'm trying to switch that and have empathy rather than anger.

Because at first you're like, fuck you, how dare you come at me like that? But it's like, no. In my case, maybe someone has lost a baby, and that's something I don't ever understand, and that's maybe why this anger is coming out. Or maybe they let themselves go during their pregnancy, gained 50 pounds, got gestational diabetes, and regret that and resent anyone who didn't.

Nikkiey: The principles you've learned, right? You're living on purpose. How can that be incorporated into a fitness routine, like what you're explaining, to make it more meaningful for women to want to work out?

Guest: Oh, this is a good question.

Nikkiey: Right?

Guest: Let's see what you're doing here. This is so bad. Now I have to think. Okay. What a good question.

Nikkiey: Let's just walk through this together, right? Because this is kind of your area of expertise.

Guest: My coaching is called Fan into Flame, because I believe it's 2 Timothy 1:6. It says, fan into flame the gift of God, right? We're all given this purpose. God instills in us this beautiful flame, and it's our job to tend to it and fan it into flame. And so when we're thinking about igniting our purpose, living on purpose, living in our truth and our authenticity, life just becomes easy from there, because we're in congruence and it actually feels good. Work doesn't feel so hard. The relationship doesn't feel so difficult. We're acting from overflow rather than overwhelm, right?

Nikkiey: Right.

Guest: When we're in that state, think about it. You are at an all-time high. Your energy, your hormones. You're just operating from this beautiful state and space. So how does that translate into your workout routine? Well, all you want to do is store and amplify and grow.

Nikkiey: Yes.

Guest: Right? For right now, I'm technically homeless, which is so silly to say. But I don't have anywhere to go, and I'm going to Hawaii. My plan was to go to Maui. Maui had fires.

Nikkiey: Yes, you had a whole plan.

Guest: We're praying over them. And I'm going to Oahu. And for the first time in my life, I can confidently say I'm not chasing anything. I don't think Oahu is going to make me rediscover myself. I'm not on a search for anything. I'm fulfilled. And I'm going to go to places where it will be amplified. So if you're fulfilled, you're going to go to the gym to amplify that fulfillment.

Nikkiey: Yes.

Guest: Right? You're going to treat your body like a vessel to amplify your fulfillment. All of a sudden, it becomes less about chasing and trying to find. It's the difference between walking around like bags of need looking for fulfillment, versus walking around full of fulfillment looking for where the need is, and how can I serve and show up.

Nikkiey: Oh, snap. Really? Holy moly. That was powerful as fuck.

Guest: I gave myself chills. Can I say that?

Nikkiey: Yes. Let's go. Oh, that's so good. Because I think about why I work out. It just makes me feel incredible. It makes me feel great. And to your point, what you articulated so well is that I'm just amplifying that feel-goodness. I'm living on purpose. I don't think of working out as a chore. I get to go do that because of the one body I've been given. I get to keep it.

Guest: Yeah. That's it, babe.

Nikkiey: Yeah. I get to.

Guest: Of course I do. I'm abundant. I'm strong. I'm powerful. I'm a badass. I get to take my ass into that gym and kick it myself. That's the treasure. That's the health. That's the vitality. So then we go from scarcity into abundance, right? I'm abundant. I'm deserving of things. I'm deserving of good health. I'm deserving of vitality. Of course, of course, of course. And so that's the reality we start to see. And the body starts to listen, because the body leans in and hears every thought that we have, because thoughts release chemicals, chemicals release hormones, right? So all of a sudden we're training this different muscle. We're leaning into this abundance. And we go from this voice of fear and scarcity and resistance to receptivity, growth, abundance and faith. And we're like, I get to have it all, including the sexy body. Because a healthy, beautiful body is an amazing desire to have.

Nikkiey: Real quick, the only ask I could ever have of you guys is to help spread the word so we can help more women lose body fat, build muscle, reach their goals, and feel insanely confident. And the only way we can do that is if you rate, review, and share this podcast. So the single thing I ask you to do is leave a review. It will take you 10 seconds, and it will mean the absolute world to me and may change the world of someone else.