Why You Keep Self-Sabotaging Your Fat Loss Goals

Amber: When I have a specific goal, I track, but 90% of my life I don't track. But what has helped me is I understand portion sizes. I understand the composition of my food. That information does not leave you when you stop opening up your app every single time. And so I now understand so much more about food that I didn't understand before. Tracking macros for a period of time, learning about nutrition, learning about food, learning about your body, serves you even after you're done tracking.

Nikkiey: What's up, you guys? Welcome back to The WarriorBabe Show. Today is another awesome day here on the podcast. We have another inspiring guest here with us. You may already know her through her own incredible podcast, with over 3.7 million downloads, called Biceps After Babies. She's a former registered nurse, personal trainer, wife, and mom of four babies from ages 8 to 15, which is so bomb. And she's doing amazing things within the fitness industry, helping women know fitness is so much more than just pounds lost and PRs, but also about helping women feel more confident in their skin and empowered throughout their entire life, which I just love so much and align with so much. And apparently, we've been told that we're doppelgangers with our voice. So I'm excited to hear how that goes down on the podcast today. With all that being said, excited to have you on the show. Amber, welcome.

Amber: Thank you so much. And yeah, maybe you can't tell our voices apart, but I'm so glad to be here.

Nikkiey: Right? Who's talking at this point?

Amber: That's right.

Nikkiey: So, Amber, to kick it off, girl, why don't you share a little bit about who you are and what you do with the listeners here?

Amber: Yeah, awesome. So, as Nikkiey said, I'm the owner and founder of Biceps After Babies. I started that in 2016, not really intentionally. I started it as just an Instagram account, sharing my own fitness journey and some of the things that were working for me. I had stumbled upon macro counting in 2016. Nikkiey and I both share a background of being a registered nurse. And when I found macro counting, I was like, why do more people not know this? Why is this not taught in school? This is all based in science, in nutrition. So I started just telling the world about macros and how amazing it was and how it really shaped and transformed my body. And people started asking me to coach them. And I was like, oh, sure, that sounds fun, let's do it.

From that, it really organically developed into Biceps After Babies, where I help a lot of moms, but women in general, become the best versions of themselves and up-level in their fitness life. But then that also translates, as you know, Nikkiey, into so many other areas of life. So that's what I do now: I help women in my signature program, Macros 101, use macros to help them shape and hit the body goals that they want. And then I also help coaches. I've now transitioned into helping certified coaches use some of the techniques and tools that I use in my coaching and apply them to their own coaching business. So that's been really fun as well.

Nikkiey: I love that. Empowering women all around. So, bringing it back: science-based. Love that you use that term. And I know that you and I both resonate with macros. So can you share a little bit about what macros means to you and why this approach is how you go about getting your clients results?

Amber: Yeah, absolutely. So again, Nikkiey and I are both BSNs. We've both gone through nursing school. I remember in nursing school, one of the classes that we had to take was all about research, because in medicine, everything that you do needs to be evidence-based. That's the terminology: evidence-based medicine. When we're going in and turning patients or suctioning them, there's evidence to support why we're doing it the way that we're doing it, because research has been done to show this way works better than that way. So we're always following the evidence to make those decisions in medicine.

I learned that in nursing school and understood how to read research, how to understand and interpret research, and how to look for quality research that's actually structured well. So I got out of nursing school and I worked as a nurse for a while. And I was having my own fitness journey, as so many of us have had, especially coaches. I feel like we all have some sort of fitness journey ourselves before we start helping other people.

I was teaching group fitness classes at the time, and I felt like I was doing so much work in the gym, teaching six, seven group fitness classes a week, and nothing was really changing in my body. I felt like I was putting so much effort in for very, very little results in terms of my physique. And I knew enough to realize that I was paying a lot of attention to my workouts and not any real attention to being very specific with my nutrition and having my nutrition also support the goals that I set.

I remember very clearly, it was in 2015, I was scrolling through Pinterest and I stumbled upon a pin. It took me to this blog, and there was this woman talking about macro counting. I had never heard this term. This was brand new to me. But I'm reading through all the things that she's talking about, and she's talking about carbs, fat, and protein. She's talking about how our body uses each of them differently and how we need to make sure that we have the right amount of nutrients for our body while also being in a caloric deficit if you're wanting to have fat loss.

And as I'm reading this, I'm like, freak, this makes so much sense. This is the fundamentals of nutrition. This is how our bodies work. This is all science-based. These are things that I learned in my nutrition class. I learned about carbs, fat, and protein. But it's taking that to the next level and realizing that when you can manipulate those variables, of course you're going to create different outcomes based on that manipulation. I'd read lots of diets in the past and they never made sense to me. I was like, that's the dumbest idea ever. Why would I cut all carbohydrates out of my diet? It doesn't make any sense. From a scientific standpoint, it makes zero sense that my body runs on glucose and yet you want me to cut out all carbs. But when I read about macro counting, I was like, dang, this makes scientific sense.

And the first test subject is always yourself. So I set a goal in 2016. This was my New Year's resolution. So people who say New Year's resolutions don't work, it's all crap.

Nikkiey: Yo, wild, Amber. I'm going to cut you off for a second. When people say we're doppelgangers, you know when you just hear a similar story and you get chills? Literally, we have a very similar story. From our nursing background, to a Pinterest thing that caught your attention, to being your own test subject and testing it on yourself. All of this stuff is just crazy. And then, most importantly, what you just said, which I'm going to let you continue on: the New Year's resolution. That was me in 2015.

Amber: Wow. Wild.

Nikkiey: Okay, keep going.

Amber: So 2016 comes, and I set a New Year's resolution, and I said, I want to see abs. I feel like I work out enough. I lift enough. I do enough work in the gym, but I've never been able to see abs. And mind you, by this time, I'd had four babies. So I feel like it's a little bit higher of a hurdle for someone who's had children. But I'm like, I feel like if I can align my nutrition with this goal and use this new tool that I found of macro counting, I can do it.

And Nikkiey, I was freaking blown away. I was not new to working out. I was not even new to the concept of healthy eating. I had learned a lot about healthy eating through the years. But I was blown away, when I went from just quote-unquote healthy eating to actually being very specific about how to fuel my body in a way that drove the result that I wanted, by how fast my body changed. I think it was about 8 to 10 weeks later. I didn't have a ton of fat to lose, but I lost about 10 pounds and was able to see visible abs for the first time in my life. And I was shocked.

Nikkiey: Post four babies.

Amber: Post four babies. And it wasn't hard. And I wasn't miserable. And I ate ice cream every single night of my cut. My jaw just dropped to the floor. And so that's when I said, I have to start an Instagram account. I'm just going to share what I'm learning, because this is life changing. I remember I was scrolling on Instagram, and I was like, I need to start this Instagram account. What am I going to name it? And this was my most creative moment of my entire life. It hit me.

Nikkiey: It is your signature brand, girl.

Amber: Right. It is Biceps After Babies. What I wanted to convey with that was, so many women feel like when they have a baby, their fittest days are behind them. And I wanted to communicate to women that you can have biceps after babies. You can have abs after babies. You can have your fittest body after babies. And that doesn't have to be a death sentence to you being able to reach those physical goals.

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Ah, damn, I love that, that entire journey that you just took us on. First of all, because you had four kids, and I'm sure the audience is like, oh my God, I'm struggling right now. I just had one, or I had two. Like you said, it's daunting to them. They had their postpartum, they gained this weight, and all of a sudden they're like, how do I bounce back and get my body back? So in those stages of you learning about macros, all science-based, it totally makes sense. Love that you dove into that a little bit. But let's talk to a mom that just had a baby and is struggling with knowing where to start. Where do you even start? Because, I mean, shit, 10 weeks and you got those abs. It's fire. That's incredible. And through macros, I need to pinpoint that as well. But what would you say to a mom that's like, I'm postpartum, this is what I'm dealing with, I'm inspired by Amber's story, where do I start?

Amber: Yeah, it's so good. Well, the first point that I would make is don't compare yourself. I think it's really easy, especially as a mom. I'm sure there are moms listening to this who are like, well, that has not been my experience. I couldn't cut for 10 weeks and see abs. And so it's really easy to start that comparison game of, why can't my body be like that? Why can't I have that experience?

One of the things that I teach women a lot in my program is that when we surround ourselves with a community of women, it can be really powerful and really uplifting if you use it in the right way. And the right way to use it is by using someone's success as an opportunity to see what's possible for you, rather than a comparison that makes you feel bad that you're not where that person is at.

What you don't hear, or maybe haven't considered, is that the 10-week cut that I did in 2016 was, yes, a 10-week period of time. But I was not new to lifting. I was not new to working out. I had a physical fitness routine before that. I had put a lot of time and effort in for years prior, so that when I found that piece of nutrition, it all just clicked and everything came together. So I think knowing that full story is really important, because for a mom who's just coming off having a baby, starting slow and adding one thing at a time is going to be the best way for you to be successful.

What I don't want you to do is run out and feel like, I have to get a gym membership, and I have to learn how to lift weights, and I also have to add macro counting, and then I probably should drink water, and I probably need to go on runs, and add all of these things. And then take care of this little baby that sucks the life out of you for the first year of their life. I think we do ourselves a disservice, especially as moms, feeling like we have to do it all in order to be successful. And because most of us don't want to do it all or can't do it all, we do nothing at all. And we sit in the cycle of not adding anything that's going to move us towards our goals.

So my biggest recommendation for a woman who's listening to this, who's postpartum and trying to make those healthy changes, is to make healthy changes one at a time. That can start very small, like going for a walk with your baby: putting him in the stroller and going for a daily walk. I always talk about pulling levers in our journey, because most women want to walk up to this big board with lots of buttons and lots of levers, and they want to push all the buttons and pull all the levers all at once. When you do that, not only is it overwhelming, but you don't really get a sense of which lever creates what change in your body.

So I love to have women pull levers one at a time. Let's start with just the single lever of exercising and going for a walk every single day. And then let's layer on the next lever: if you want to get into nutrition, let's start with you just tracking what you're eating. Don't change it. Don't modify it. Let's just start getting you into the practice and the habit of tracking your food and being more aware of the food that you're eating.

I know everyone always wants the fastest results, the fastest transformation possible. But I love to help women shift from getting the fastest transformation possible to the longest-lasting transformation. And that is done by having grace with yourself, starting slowly, adding things one at a time, pulling those levers one at a time, and really making this a habit. I know it's overstated all the time. We double-tap that on Instagram, but we don't actually integrate it: making these things a habit for the long run.

Nikkiey: Yeah, I love all that you just said. Habit stacking. And then, like James Clear says in Atomic Habits, casting a vote for your future self. So stacking all of these wins on a daily basis. I love it because people do go in with that New Year's resolution mentality at the beginning of having a baby, where they try and do all of the things at once. They get caught up with all of the things they feel like they have to do, which then just sets them back a little bit more, rather than taking one action at a time and stacking the wins on top of each other. I always joke about this: people want to put their body in a microwave, hit 30 seconds, and out pops a toned six-pack ab body. And I'm like, you guys have got to stop with this instant gratification crap and get obsessed with delayed gratification, because that's what's going to create the habits. And the habits are what's going to create the longevity of a sustainable lifestyle for you moving forward. So everything you just said is fire.

Amber: Now, one thing I can add to this: I hear a lot of women talking about wanting to get their pre-baby body back. And I think it's really important to speak to that, because I think it's a harmful narrative that we feel like we need to go back in time. It's the same problem as, I want my 20-year-old body back, or I want some past version of me back, instead of looking forward and saying, how can I be the fittest version of myself today?

This narrative that women get caught up in, of having to look the same post-baby as they did pre-baby, puts a lot of pressure on women. You just went through the miracle of giving birth to a child. Your body is never going to be the same. That doesn't mean you can't be fit. It doesn't mean you can't have abs. It doesn't mean you can't lift heavy crap. But it does mean that pining after a previous version of yourself is never a healthy way to live life. So look forward and say, okay, I'm a different person. I'm a mom now. That is a different identity that you're holding. Your body is different. But that doesn't mean it's bad, or that it's never going to be great, or that it's never going to be what you want it to be. We can always be looking forward. Pining after something that we used to have, in anything in our life, is usually not very productive.

Nikkiey: Hey, hey, just want to drop a huge appreciation to you guys listening to the show. It means a lot. I hope you guys are enjoying it, and there's so much more to come. If you are enjoying it, hit the subscribe button. I'd appreciate that tons, and it would help this podcast reach others who need to hear these messages too. Thanks so much, guys. Let's get back to the show.

Yeah, 100%. So I would love for you to dive a little bit deeper on that, going deeper into the roots, because a lot of this can be a self-sabotaging action. Women think about these ways. They go down those narratives of, I wish I looked like that, or the comparison that we talked about a little bit ago. Dive a little bit deeper into those roots. What keeps women self-sabotaging?

Amber: Yeah, it's such a good question, and it's a question that I wish more people would recognize and ask. This became a question that I was obsessed with as I started coaching. As I said before, I started coaching on a whim. It was very organic. It was very much like, hey, will you coach me? Yeah, sure, that sounds fun. I figured out what worked for my body; of course that's going to work for your body as well. That's very naive of me, but that's where I started as a coach.

So I started coaching women. I understood the science. I understood macros. I understood how to manipulate them. Again, I had seen it work for my body. And I started working with clients, and clients were getting vastly different results. Some of my clients would have amazing results. Some of my clients wouldn't have any results. And some of my clients would get results and then lose them. And I was doing the same things with all of my clients. I was using the same tool of macro counting with all of my clients. I was just floored as to why people were getting such vastly different results.

The more I started working with clients and really getting curious about this, I started realizing that there was a handful of clients who, whatever I told them to do, would go and execute. Those were usually the ones who got super fast results, got the abs, were like, thank you, this is amazing, and left. But then with 95% of people, I could give them macros, I could give them workouts, but they wouldn't do it. Or they'd do it for a while and they wouldn't be very consistent with it. They would not go to the gym this week, and they would binge eat on the weekends. They wouldn't stick to any of the plans that I would give them. And of course, if you're not sticking to it, we can't expect it to work. So as a coach, I got obsessed with figuring out how I could get more women to actually take the action that they knew was going to get them the results that they wanted, but for some reason weren't taking.

I have to put a pause here, because I think it's really important for women who are listening to this who have felt stuck in that cycle before. You tried macro counting and you couldn't stick to it. You had your macros, but for whatever reason, you couldn't stick to it. Or you've tried to go lift at the gym and you couldn't develop it as a habit. One of the issues that I have with the fitness industry and a lot of coaches is that a lot of times coaches will point the finger at you and say, well, you're not dedicated enough. I gave you fabulous macros. If you would just freaking follow the macros, you'd get results. And it becomes this guilt trip. A lot of women that I work with have, in the past, felt very guilty and very shameful that they haven't been able to stick to these perfectly good plans that other coaches had given them. I think it's really damaging and harmful.

When you start to understand that there's a reason why you haven't stuck to them, and we can address that underlying root cause, then you're going to have a much easier time actually taking the action you need to take. For women who are stuck in that cycle, it can be a very self-defeating cycle of, well, I didn't stick to my macros today, I'm a loser. I'm the problem. I can't solve it. My body's broken. All of these things that we get into with self-defeating behavior.

So I got obsessed as a coach with trying to figure this out. How could I work with these women who were self-sabotaging, who were getting in their own darn way, who weren't being consistent? Instead of saying, you're the problem, you just need to figure it out, you need to be more motivated, I got obsessed with asking, what can I do as a coach to support these women in their transformation and really figure out what's going on? Where is the self-sabotaging behavior coming from, and how do we address it? Over the years, that's been my guiding question: how can I help women identify what's really keeping them stuck, and then, as a coach, help them figure that out, identify it, and fix it, so that it becomes easy to start taking the actions they need to get results?

Nikkiey: Yeah. So what were some of the things that you found?

Amber: Yeah. As I dug into this question, understanding where the behaviors are coming from was earth-shattering for me. I realized that people take actions and it always makes sense in their brain. We always self-justify. We always self-rationalize why we're taking said action. When I was seeing these self-sabotaging behaviors, I noticed that a lot of times coaches focus on the behavior. You're binging over the weekend; how can we stop the binging? How can we address the action you're taking? You aren't consistent when you go on vacation; how can we address the behavior?

But the problem is, behavior comes from somewhere. There's a reason for the behavior. And if we're only addressing the behavior, we're not going to create long-term, permanent change. The root of that behavior is always going to be your beliefs and your identity: what you believe about yourself, about the process, and the identity that you hold. You quoted James Clear earlier, and he talks about this, the vote for the person you want to become.

So when I started to understand that link, that someone's beliefs and the identity they hold drive their behaviors, I thought: if I'm seeing behaviors that are getting in the way of the results they want, what would happen if, instead of addressing the behaviors, I start to address the beliefs and the identity they're holding? And that was when everything started to change. When I got really good as a coach at eliciting from somebody what their current beliefs and identity were, I could start to see the holes that were preventing them from getting the results they want. So I became really good at uncovering those mental blocks that were keeping them stuck and helping them to remove them. And then the behaviors and the actions became so much more natural for them.

That's really what I built my coaching practice on. I love working with the client who just does what they said they're going to do, but I find that's a very small percentage of the population. So I work with a much larger percentage of the population: the ones who maybe know what to do, but don't do it, and can't figure out why.

Nikkiey: Yeah, I love all of that, in terms of the identity and getting to that root cause, not the quick-fix thing. You can easily say, do better, go do the things I'm telling you to do. That's lazy coaching.

Amber: Exactly.

Nikkiey: In my opinion.

Amber: Right. No, I agree.

Nikkiey: But then you can peel back the onion and get really curious about the person you're working with, and almost make it all about them. No, not almost: do make it all about them. Get curious about why they're acting this way. I saw this on your Instagram and I love it. You said, be careful about what you say after 'I am.' Because after 'I am,' it could be, I am not good at this. And therefore that is going to cause actions that make you not good at going to work out or learning how to eat better. James Clear talks about this: peeling back the onion to create an identity shift. If you're dealing with somebody who's never worked out a day in their life and has never chosen to eat better, of course their behaviors are going to be in alignment with that identity. So how can you get curious about what they're dealing with, to help them shift that identity to be more supportive of the things that they want to accomplish, which is getting a better body, eating healthy, and feeling good? You have to get so curious. And I was once that coach, let me just pull back for a second. I was once that coach.

Amber: Everybody starts there. No shame to any coaches that are listening. I feel like every coach starts at that level. That's just where you start: why aren't you doing it? You work for me, why can't you do it? And then you learn better, and then you do better. So no shade to any coaches who feel like that's the level they're at. That's just the beginning coaching mentality.

Nikkiey: Yeah, 100%. Identity is so important. When you shift the identity, you just become more of the things that you want to be and do. My favorite thing to say is, think about the person that you want to become. It's not about who I am right now. It's who do I want to become, and what are the actions that are in alignment with that human being? What do I have to do? How do I have to shift everything around? What identity do I have to step into to be that person? I love all that stuff.

So, okay, bringing it back to macros. I want to ask this question because you said there are those people at the beginning who just go and do all the things, and then there are the ones who struggle with what we just talked about. Outside of the mindset and identity things, what are some tips and tricks you would give somebody who's just starting with macros, to make macros successful for them at the beginning?

Amber: Totally. One of my biggest recommendations for someone who's brand new to macro counting is to start learning how to track before you start learning how to hit any numbers. A lot of times we try to do both simultaneously. You go to a coach, they give you macro numbers, and now you're trying to learn how to track your macros, you're trying to learn how to use your tracking app, you're trying to learn how to weigh foods, and you're trying to learn how to hit all three of these numbers simultaneously. It becomes really overwhelming for a lot of people.

So one of the things that I always have my clients do is start by tracking whatever they're eating normally, without trying to change anything. Because tracking is a skill. Learning how to navigate your app, how to create recipes in your app, how to weigh things: that is a skill, and it takes a little bit of practice. So I love to have clients start there. One, they're starting to learn what they've been doing in the past. Most people have zero idea how many carbs a banana has, or how many grams of fat. Or that peanut butter is actually more fat than it is protein. Or the tablespoon of peanut butter: when you take a lofty heaping one, it's like two or three or four. And when you measure, it's like, oh snap, that's not very much peanut butter. So there's a lot of learning that can be done just tracking your normal intake and getting over the learning curve of learning to track.

Then, when clients come to me and they're starting with macro counting, some women can dive in and they're totally fine, they're not overwhelmed, and they can make it work. That's fabulous for you. For a lot of women, it's very overwhelming at first. So I love to have them baby-step it. We start with, let's first have this calorie goal and have you hit your calories. That's the whole goal. Then we can layer on: let's have you hit calories and let's have you hit protein. And now we're starting to get into what is challenging for a lot of women, which is learning, hey, I eat very little protein. The standard American diet is usually very low in protein, and learning how to eat more protein can be a real hurdle for a lot of women when they come into macro counting, as I'm sure you know. Once we get comfortable with that, then we can layer on: okay, now let's hit all three of the macros simultaneously. Let's hit carbs, fat, and protein and your calories, and go from there.

This is a big beef of mine with macro counting: I feel like coaches have made it almost too complicated, in order to justify you needing them to coach you. We make it so complicated that so many women are like, ooh, this thing of macro counting, I can eat ice cream and lose weight, that sounds fabulous. And we throw them into the deep end, and they start drowning. And they're like, this macro thing is not for me. And then they say things like, it didn't work for me. And you're like, it's a tool. It's science. It works. You just got thrown in the deep end and didn't know how to manage it. I hate it when people say macro counting didn't work for me. It's like saying gravity didn't work for me. Gravity works fine. It always works fine.

Nikkiey: Yeah. You've got to work it, for sure.

Amber: You don't understand gravity. You don't understand how it works, and so you make this offhand comment that it didn't work. But a lot of times, when women say that, I find it's because they got way too overwhelmed trying to do all of the things at once. So I love having women baby-step it.

Nikkiey: Yeah, baby-step it, for sure. Track it, take it step by step. Like we said, little small wins. It gets you to be a pro.

Amber: And I like to say that macros is a skill set that will serve you for the rest of your life. And you don't have to track for the rest of your life for it to serve you for the rest of your life. I don't track macros most of the time anymore. I use it as a tool when I have a very specific goal. I used it to lose weight, to get the six-pack. Then I did powerlifting for a while, so I tracked macros then because I really wanted to improve my numbers. And then I did a hypertrophy cycle, a bulking cycle, where I was adding muscle.

Nikkiey: You've got to eat a shit ton of food for that. You've got to make sure you eat that amount.

Amber: Right. In that case, if I don't track, I'm under-eating. So I've got to track to make sure I have enough food. So when I have a specific goal, I track, but 90% of my life, I don't track. What has helped me is I understand portion sizes. I understand the composition of my food. That information does not leave you when you stop opening up your app every single time. I now understand so much more about food than I did before. So tracking macros for a period of time, learning about nutrition, learning about food, learning about your body, serves you even after you're done tracking.

Nikkiey: 110%, love that. People feel like it's daunting, and you spoke really well to that. Instead of diving into the deep end of learning macronutrients, and even if you did dive into the deep end, still take it step by step. A lot of people get impatient with learning how to track macronutrients and they want to give up, because it requires time. I joke, get your MyFitnessPal out, go run around your kitchen and barcode-scan some stuff. Then you'll put it into your database, and yada yada yada. That takes time. But if you just took the year to get really solid at learning the skill set, holy shit, will it serve you, like I said, for the rest of your life. I'm, what, eight years in. My scale, actually, since I wanted to cut a little bit before I go on a trip, is broken. The batteries are freaking dead. I'm like, God damn it. But I'm able to look at the food and be like, okay, this is three ounces of beef, this is a tortilla, I've got the carbs on the back. So I am so thankful to macros, because I can look at any type of food item and be like, that's a carb, that's a fat, that's a protein.

Amber: That's right.

Nikkiey: I feel like so many women just need to learn that, because it can serve them in so many ways. Let's talk about going out to dinners. How would you tell your ladies to approach going on vacation or going out to dinner, when they feel like they have to track all the time?

Amber: Yeah. We talked earlier about root causes of self-sabotage, and one of those root causes tends to be the all-or-nothing thinking that many women exhibit when it comes to macro counting. I feel like they come by that rightly, because a lot of coaches are very dogmatic: you either hit your macros or you don't hit your macros. And if you don't hit your macros, well, then you suck and you probably need to hit your macros. And that's all the coaching they give that person. So a lot of women come into my program with that history of feeling like, if I don't hit my macros every single day, I'm not going to get results. So they become very dogmatic about it. And then they go out to a restaurant and they freak the heck out, because they're like, I don't know how much this rice is, or how much oil this was cooked in. And they go on vacation and they're like, I don't know how to track all of these things. And so what do they do? The all-or-nothing mentality kicks in, they throw it all out, and they eat like an asshole on vacation. They eat whatever they want.

Nikkiey: We're just so similar. I say, please don't eat like an asshole while you're away. Enjoy your time, but just don't be an asshole.

Amber: Right. So we can start to acknowledge and recognize that all-or-nothing thinking that most women tend to fall haphazardly into. And we can start to say, okay, how can we get out of that all-or-nothing thinking? I always like to prompt my clients: it's all or something. So what is the something? You go out to eat and you don't know how to track it. Okay, awesome. Nothing would be not tracking it at all. All would be, I don't know, going to the waiter or the cook, bringing the scale to the kitchen, and asking the cook to weigh things. That's the all. We have the all or nothing. So then what's the something? What's the in-between, something you can do that will move you forward, that will have you be accountable, that will have you make a vote for the type of person you want to become, and get you as much information and data as possible without holding you to having to be perfect? Same philosophy when you go on a vacation. Same philosophy when your friend brings you dinner. It's all the same philosophy of recognizing: instead of it being all or nothing, how can it be all or something? And then using that momentum to continue to drive you forward.

Nikkiey: So in that case, would you say ballpark it? Go into a database; MyFitnessPal has a shit ton of all the things. Ballpark it. Maybe it was a cup of rice; okay, put that in. You can at least see at the end of the day where your numbers are. Is that what you mean by something?

Amber: Exactly. And you made such a good point before: for people who are brand new to tracking, that can feel very hard, because they're like, I have zero idea what a cup of rice looks like. So this is where, again, the longer that you track and the more information you're able to gather, the more you can start to do that eyeballing. Your eyeballing is not going to be very good at first. That's okay. Still eyeball it. Still give it your good old best go: that was a cup and a half of rice, question mark. I'm just going to go with it as a cup and a half of rice. And as you learn more, you'll be able to eyeball it a little bit better. But yeah, you go into your database, you estimate the amounts, you find something similar, you log it, and you say, peace out, I did my very best. I'm not going to let perfection be the enemy of good. I'm going to keep moving forward. And that moment right there, that identity you just stepped into, is what's going to drive you forward. Because the opposite is what so many women fall into: I don't know what I ate, I can't track it, I'm not going to do it at all. They fall off the wagon. Tracking doesn't work for me. And then they quit. So which is better: something, or quitting because you can't be perfect?

Nikkiey: Yes. I love that you said perfection is the enemy of good, because a lot of people come in, especially, as I've seen, analytical minds who are into numbers and very logical. I remember speaking to one client who has broken through so many barriers of that type of mindset. She came in from competition mode, tracking everything, and now she's finally stepping into a somewhat intuitive lifestyle, which is so dope to see. And you can get there if you do all of these things we're sharing here. But she was like, I had to be perfect. Zeros, Amber, zeros across the board. And I'm like, holy moly, okay, we've got some work to do here. But I love that you said that, because you don't have to be perfect, especially with macros. It's all or something. I love that.

Amber: That's right. All or something. And to be clear, I don't coach competition prep. That's a very different beast from what I do, which is working with the general population.

Nikkiey: Me neither. I just have to deal with that.

Amber: But that is the leftover mindset that comes from it, because you do have to be very exact. You do have to be very diligent. You do have to push through a lot of physical and mental stuff to be able to do competition prep. All the praises to them; that's awesome. I'm speaking to someone who just wants to feel a little bit better in their body, wants to lose a little bit of weight, wants to fit back into their jeans, and wants to do it in a way that's going to be sustainable for their life.

Nikkiey: 100%. So let's go into this, because I saw this on your Instagram too, which I loved: the majority of women need to go through the phases, the cut, the reverse, maintenance, all of the jazz. And I know that you speak heavily to, yo, let's live in maintenance the majority of the years. And I align with that so much. Why?

Amber: Yeah. Most women, when they come into macro counting, and again, I think this is the marketing of macro counting, the way coaches approach things. There is marketing behind this. People want to lose weight, so we give them this tool of macro counting to be able to do it. But macro counting gets branded as a weight loss thing, like a weight loss diet. And it's so important for people to realize that macro counting is a tool, and it's a tool that can be used in a lot of different instances and situations. Just like a hammer can be used to build a house or tear down a house. It's the same hammer; it's just used in different ways.

So I really love for women to start to understand that macro counting is not just for weight loss. It's not just for cutting. It is to be able to fuel your body in a way that drives you towards whatever goals you want to have. And our bodies do better when they are well fueled. Even in a cut, that's why we work on macro ratios. That's why we focus on each of the macronutrients. Yes, you're in a caloric deficit, but if we can at least fuel your body as well as possible by having good macro ratios, you're going to be so much more successful.

A lot of women come into the process thinking macro counting equals cutting: what I'm going to do with macros is just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. The problem with that, as you know, Nikkiey, is that our metabolisms are adaptable. Our bodies are really smart, and they are made to keep us alive. So if you go into a deficit and stay there for a very long time, your body gets real smart and starts to slow everything down. Your metabolism slows down. You move less. Everything slows down, because your body says, oh, you're going to feed me only 1,300 calories? Well, then I guess I'm only going to burn 1,300 calories, because that's the way I have to adapt to what's being shown to me.

So then women get into these cycles where they're eating 1,100, 1,200, 1,300 calories and they aren't seeing any results. They're like, I'm hardly eating anything and nothing's happening. And they think the solution is to just eat less. Eat less, move more. That's the solution, they think, without understanding and realizing that this metabolic adaptation is what's keeping them stuck.

So, moving through the different phases of macro counting: using macro counting not only in a cut phase, but then in the reverse diet phase. Our metabolisms are adaptable. They can adapt down. Guess what? They can adapt back up. And there's a process to do that, and that's called reverse dieting. We can work with our metabolism, using macro counting to eat more food, which is totally wild for so many women, and drop weight at the same time by eating more food, which is just mind-blowing.

Nikkiey: Yeah. It's like, thank you, you're giving me food. About damn time.

Amber: That's exactly right. It comes back to fueling your body well. And then using macro counting as a tool during maintenance, which, like you said, should be most of your life: lived at maintenance. Most women that I work with have never, in their entire 30, 40, 70 years of life, intentionally maintained their weight. They've never said, you know what my goal is right now? My goal is to just maintain. Most women have never, ever said that. Most of the time they're either trying to lose weight, or they just don't care at all and they're doing whatever. So learning to eat at maintenance is a skill. Learning to maintain your weight is a skill, and it's a phase that needs to be accounted for.

And then some women want to go into a bulk. I mentioned previously that I've been through a bulk. That's for someone who really wants to maximize muscle gains, once you get into intermediate or advanced weightlifting. It's really hard to build muscle in a deficit, for sure. And even at maintenance, it starts to become really hard to build muscle, and you actually have to give your body extra calories to build that muscle.

Nikkiey: Yeah. Love that you spoke to all of that, because it's so true. Living in maintenance matters because, think about it, you want to build muscle. Well, you just spoke to it: you're not going to be able to build it in a cut, because you're not eating enough for what the muscle needs. Muscle is active tissue. It doesn't fucking stop, just like your metabolism doesn't stop. So give the body what it needs in order to build the muscle that you want.

And this is another thing I think I saw on your Instagram. I fucking hate the word toned, but toned has somehow made its presence known. And I'm guilty; I've used it for marketing, but I fricking hate it.

Amber: Because it's marketing. It's what people say, and so of course you're going to use the word that they say.

Nikkiey: Yes. But let's just preface this, guys, and I've said this in podcasts as well: if you want to be toned, you have to build muscle, because what toned is, is decreasing the body fat around the beautiful muscle that you've built. So if you want to do that, you have to eat. And if you want to eat, you can't stay in a deficit forever. So you've got to think end goal. You want to build muscle? Okay, cool. Where's the best place to be? Maintenance, man. You get to eat and build muscle at the same time. But you alluded to your bulk there, which I did see. Was that the picture from 2016 where you were 126 pounds, next to the later one where you were 142 pounds?

Amber: Yeah. I went through some phases, but the 126 was when I was my leanest, when I had my six-pack. And then, like what you said, I cut down and I actually didn't have a lot of muscle. There wasn't a lot of muscle there. And I realized, yeah, I needed to add the muscle. So then I did end up going into a bulk. I think that was probably 2017, 2018, when I did my powerlifting competition and really added. I went from 126 to about 147, 148, and really did it. And then I was able to cut back down so that I could get into my weight class for my powerlifting competition. Bulks are hard, mentally and physically, but they're awesome.

Nikkiey: Yeah. There are two things there I want to unpack. I want to get to the scale in a second, because obviously we have a very similar story: I was 140, dropped down to 120, and now I weigh 155. So I want to talk about that number with you. But first let's talk about the mindset, because in the WarriorBabe community, we teach bulking, but we teach it in the sense that it is a mental game you're going to go through. If you want to build muscle and you have a smaller frame, it can jumpstart and accelerate results. Put yourself in that phase for a little bit so you can build muscle at an optimal rate. So talk to me about the mindset you had to endure while you went through that.

Amber: Yeah. It's super counterintuitive for most women to intentionally gain weight. That just blows their mind: your goal is to have the scale go up? That makes no sense. It goes against the last 50 years of Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, all of the things.

Nikkiey: That's right.

Amber: But I think the first thing to break down there, and this gets into that scale mentality, is that the reason people cannot grasp that is because they've taken fat and weight and collapsed them together. They've said, if the scale goes up, that means I've gained fat, and if the scale goes down, that means I've lost fat, which is not actually the case. You can lose weight and gain weight without having any fat leave or enter your body. So when we can start to break that apart and help women understand that the scale is a data point, that it gives us some information but not a clear picture of what's going on, which is why we include lots of data points, then we can start to separate that idea of, why would you ever want to add weight? Well, because when I'm adding weight, my goal is not to add fat. My goal is to add muscle. And yes, some fat's going to come along with it. That's the expense of doing a bulk. You're going to hopefully maximize muscle gain and minimize fat gain, but there's going to be some fat along with it. So when you start to understand, oh, you want to add weight on the scale because your goal is to add more muscle, people can start to wrap their head around that process a little bit more: okay, now I see why you actually wanted to see the scale go up, because you wanted to add more muscle to your body.

Nikkiey: Yeah. And damn, that picture, guys, definitely check it out. We'll have her Instagram and all the things below the podcast. That picture was so cool to see. You still have an athletic figure. It's not like you gained fat; you gained muscle, and boy, is that muscle present when you give that flex. So, I love it. All of the things, man, that was fire. I enjoyed talking to you about all of the mindset. I feel like we encompassed a lot of things here in one, which was awesome. Is there anything else you want to say to the listeners today?

Amber: I mean, you're right, we covered a lot of ground on the podcast today. It was really, really good. It was really fun.

Nikkiey: So, listeners, I hope you enjoyed this podcast today and got to know Amber a little bit more. Again, go check her out at Biceps After Babies. Her podcast, Instagram, Facebook groups and all the other things will be below this podcast. Amber, girl, appreciate you. Thank you so much for coming on today.

Amber: Oh, it was super fun. It was my honor, Nikkiey. So fun to be here.

Nikkiey: Awesome. See you guys. Real quick: the only ask I could ever have of you guys is to help spread the word so we can help more women lose body fat, build muscle, reach their goals and feel insanely confident. And the only way we can do that is if you rate, review and share this podcast. So the single thing I ask you to do is leave a review. It will take you 10 seconds, it will mean the absolute world to me, and it may change the world of someone else.