Does Pilates Build Muscle for Women Over 40?

Maggie: A lot of these skinny girls, they don't feel like they have to put effort in. So they kind of eat whatever they want. They're able to stay small. They don't have muscle. So they're over-consuming sugar, different things like that. They have no muscle to store that glucose. None. So it goes straight to their liver. So there are so many skinny girls with fatty liver disease.

Nikkiey: Pilates can be used as a tool, not the mechanism for building muscle. It's great for flexibility, mobility, stretching, whatever. But let's just correct that narrative that it is not going to build muscle and you're not doing progressive overload.

Maggie: I still love to go for a run. Is it building muscle? No. But I need to work on my cardiovascular fitness, just like Pilates. You need to work on your balance and your strength. And it's all very useful. But let's call it what it is. It's not muscle building.

Nikkiey: Never weigh yourself again or never take the progress photo again?

Maggie: Never weigh yourself again.

Andrea: Never take a progress photo.

Maggie: Really?

Nikkiey: Wait, I'm so intrigued, Andrea. Why never take the progress photo again? Did you just want to say something opposite?

Nikkiey: What's going on, everybody? Hey, you guys. Welcome back to another episode of The WarriorBabe Show. Today I've got the other brand voices of WarriorBabe here with me. I've got Maggie and Andrea. And today we're just going to have some fun. We're going to do a podcast together. We're going to talk about a bunch of different things, mainly starting it off with what we see going on inside the industry. I know that there are a lot of overwhelming and confusing things out there, so we want to cut through the noise and give you guys our take on it.

Then we're going to answer some questions that came through our Instagram profiles. And then we're going to end it with a this or that game. So you guys are in for a good show today. What's up, Maggie and Andrea?

Maggie: Hello. So nice to be here with you all. I'll take any chance I can to hang out with these two. It's great fun.

Andrea: I know. We almost did it before we started the podcast. We were just sitting here for 15 minutes yapping about all the topics.

Nikkiey: That would have made a good podcast. We actually probably should have pushed record.

Maggie: We probably should have, because I'm sure people are feeling the same way I'm feeling about what I'm going through.

Nikkiey: We talked about it prior. I don't know that we want to bring it up, because maybe we'll save it till the end. How about that? We'll save it till the end. That'll be a good finale. If you really want to know what we were talking about before we hit record, stay until the end of the podcast.

So, as I was saying, I want to kick it off with you guys. We know this: in the health and fitness space, on Instagram, one person is saying do this and another person is saying do that. And a lot of women who are just looking for the answer that's going to get them where they want to be feel so overwhelmed and confused about what the right thing to do is. So let's talk about the trends we're seeing that we genuinely love, and then which ones you think are just overhyped, and why.

Andrea: Well, I love the strong, not skinny trend. Finally, a trend I can go on, right? Because growing up, I was never that skinny girl, and I always fought to try to be that in the 80s and 90s. And now I'm like, wow, I can finally have a healthy body and be strong. So I'm glad that message is catching on.

Nikkiey: Yeah, same. I can't believe skinny is still trending. Can you guys?

Maggie: I can't believe that. It's upsetting. Well, it makes me angry. I feel like we took 10 steps forward and now we're taking 20 steps back. And I don't know, do we have to start over? Like everything's been undone.

Nikkiey: I still feel like for those of us, all of us here, it makes me want to push even harder. So hopefully a lot of people are feeling that same way. I'm going to push even harder for strong.

Maggie: Yeah. Especially for my daughter. She's 13, and she's in the middle of it, just building awareness and being confident in herself, because she doesn't wear bikinis. She went to a pool party and she said, everybody was in bikinis, Mom, and I wasn't. I asked, how did that make you feel? And she said, I like doing me. I said, perfect. Don't go with the trends. Go with what you feel and what your values are. That's what we need to teach girls with all these trends.

Andrea: Let's talk about what skinny involves. That involves a lot of people still under-eating, overdoing tons of cardio and not doing any muscle-centric things. Some girls are naturally skinny, and they can be healthy. But for the majority of us, we can't look like that. Or as we age, it's harder to just naturally do that. And so we're fighting our bodies to look like we did at 20 when it was easy. That's not us anymore. So we're embracing our new stage in life, which is strength.

Maggie: I'm going to disagree with you a tiny bit.

Nikkiey: We're getting controversial now. Wait till this or that, guys.

Maggie: I know a lot of skinny girls. I have one in my life in particular who has always been skinny. And then this just happened in the gym the other day too. A skinny, skinny lady came up to me and said, I just got diagnosed, and her eyes were this big and she was petrified, with fatty liver disease. And looking at her, I would have guessed she had fatty liver disease, because she was skinny fat. She has no muscle.

A lot of these skinny girls don't feel like they have to put effort in. So they kind of eat whatever they want. They're able to stay small. They don't have muscle. So they're over-consuming sugar, different things like that. And they have no muscle to store that glucose. None. So it goes straight to their liver. So there are so many skinny girls with fatty liver disease. We've got to be careful of that. It's non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, NAFLD. That's a big problem.

Nikkiey: Yeah, that's huge. And that's the reason why, again, muscle building is so important. It's outside of just aesthetics. To your point, Maggie, it's the general health of individuals. Muscle points to so much for the long-term outcome of being healthy.

Andrea: Yeah, we have to. Our bodies are machines, right? We have to use them. Back in the 1800s, women worked and used their muscles, and that's how they maintained them. But nowadays, if you're not in the gym, how are you maintaining your arm muscle to look toned if you're not actually exercising? And it's human nature to stay comfortable. So if you don't see an outside reason to go to the gym, you're going to pick comfort. Why would you go to the gym?

Nikkiey: Okay. So this brings me into the next trend I'm seeing out there. Some of you know that I did this class about two weeks ago. I did a Pilates class, the popular brand-name one. Pilates is huge right now in this space, overtaking strength training. My mind was blown in this class, because they were talking about progressive overload and saying we were doing it in the class. I'm thinking, we are not doing progressive overload right now. And then they said we were doing heavy squats. I'm thinking, we're not doing heavy squats. But somebody who doesn't know any better is absorbing that information. They think, I just did heavy squats and I just did progressive overload. I'm building muscle. So they're hearing all the trendy words and they think they're on the right path.

Maggie: Exactly. There's a big difference between maintaining your muscle and growing new muscle. Pilates can't grow new muscle the way strength training can. So it's unfortunate that people in the industry are saying that, because that would be confusing.

Nikkiey: Very confusing. Especially when people want the outcome of building muscle, and they're doing Pilates for six months and asking, why am I not building any muscle? They see the instructor.

Andrea: That was my confusion for decades. I saw the instructor being muscular and fit, and we were doing the five-pound weights. I thought, well, one day I'll look like her. And it never happened.

Nikkiey: It never happened. And that's what Maggie was just saying. Pilates can be comfortable. I mean, in a sense, that class was no joke. I could see why people love the high pace. I was overwhelmed. I couldn't even keep up with what the coach was saying. It was moving so fast. But you're not challenging your muscles the way you would when you're doing progressive overload and actual strength training.

Now, to the point, Pilates can be used as a tool, not the mechanism for building muscle. I'll say that. Nothing against it. It's great for flexibility, mobility, stretching, whatever. But let's just correct that narrative: it is not going to build muscle, you're not doing progressive overload, and women need to get under a barbell in order to do that.

Maggie: And I think that's the biggest message out there. I still love to go for a run. Is it building muscle? No, but I need to work on my cardiovascular fitness, just like Pilates. You need to work on your balance and your strength. It's all very useful, but let's call it what it is. It's not muscle building.

Andrea: I've been trying to get women to see an athletic body as being for longevity. You're not thinking of yourself as an athlete competing against somebody, but what is an athletic body? That's someone who's strong, maybe can run or can keep up with the grandkids, and has stability and mobility. For an overall athletic body, you need to balance out your training week. I don't think any of us are saying stop doing heavy lifting or stop running. It's, how are you balancing your week? And if it's too much cardio or too much Pilates, how can we rebalance the training so it includes everything?

On social media, a lot of the time it's all or nothing. That's the hype. Pilates over here, strength training over there. But there is a middle, and sometimes the middle is kind of boring. You can have a balanced training schedule, and that is what an athletic person is. And I see the athleticism in both of you. You're incredibly strong, you do the StairMaster or whatever. You have an overall fit, athletic level.

Maggie: And I think a lot of people see the Pilates instructors, and some people are going to get pissed when I say this. You see the yoga instructor, but she actually didn't get that body doing Pilates or yoga. Even the CrossFitters. I'm going to piss off the CrossFitters. All of these people are doing fantastic things, but most of them got their physique another way.

Nikkiey: A hundred percent. We know that. And to piggyback off what you said, if you're following the instructor for the way she looks, you've got to get a little bit more curious about the way she actually got there.

Maggie: Yes. And you can't just trust a person. I would always say, if you have a coach or a personal trainer telling you things, look at them first and see how they got their results.

Andrea: I was blown away. I worked at a popular fitness chain, and when I started working there, they told me the group fitness classes weren't designed to help women build muscle. They were designed to help women feel good, keep coming back and promote the gym. When I heard that, it made me so upset, because I trusted this gym. I trusted these classes, sculpt and fit and lift, to give me that body. And I never got it. That was one of the reasons I went on social media initially. Women need to be told. If women want to look toned, what's it going to take? I wanted to stop wasting years trying to figure it out. I just wanted to know the clear path.

Nikkiey: What are some other trends that we see going on?

Maggie: Protein. Dude, don't even get me started. And now there's the big thing out there that you're eating too much, and no one's actually talking about it.

Andrea: Again, let's take 20 steps backwards. The all or nothing again. Women just want something clear. So they just focus on protein, but then you can't have all this processed stuff. Where are your nutrients? It has to make sense. Yes, protein is good, but we need a whole food diet. And then they're like, vegan. No, it doesn't have to be vegan. It's, how do you balance it? How do you get a balanced diet? You need to eat protein, you need to do this. But yet again, it's people who love the all or nothing and the easiest thing. Let me just drink protein shakes.

Nikkiey: Now I see the big brands putting out protein versions. Cheerios has protein Cheerios. Protein Pop-Tarts or whatever. I did a reel on this a while back. It was protein brownies. It was a popular brand. I picked up the protein brownies, and then I picked up their original recipe and compared the backs. The protein brownies had the crappiest ingredients. They were maybe 150 or 200 calories more per serving than the original without protein. So it was actually worse for you.

Maggie: Oh my goodness. So we have these people who aren't aware of this. They see the front of the package and never even think to flip that thing around and take a look. And they think, I'm feeding my family protein, and it's actually so much crap. You're going to gain weight if you're replacing your food with that, thinking you're eating a health food.

And then they also think there's tons of protein in it, when it's like eight grams. I'm like, that's not protein. And they're just adding one or two amino acids. It's not even enough. There's no leucine. It's nothing that's going to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. None of it. It's not even close. It's just calories. It just added calories. That's it.

Nikkiey: Why does the industry have to overcomplicate this so much? Guys, just eat your protein. And to the point of people thinking too much is going to make them fat, or that it's going to hurt their kidneys, which one is it?

Maggie: Their kidneys. Oh my goodness. They're going on the kidney thing right now.

Andrea: If you eat protein, you don't have to worry about that as much. How much chicken are you going to eat?

Nikkiey: Well, also, if you're working out, if you're training, your body's naturally going to filter out the protein the way it's supposed to. So people don't have to worry about that in general. Now, the only people I would say have to worry about it are people who have kidney disease or are missing a kidney or have only one kidney. Yes, that would apply to them. But for people who are working out and training, it doesn't. I even had a mom in my small group ask about her daughter eating enough protein, worried about her not being able to filter it out the right way. And I said, dude, she's running around. She's growing. Her body needs that. She needs at least her body weight in protein.

Maggie: Well, especially for a child, because if they're not getting enough protein, that's when your kid is feeling hungry and they start going for the graham crackers. Kids are smart enough. Their body knows they're hungry. And they ask, can I have a snack? Can I have a snack? And every time, what's the snack? Highly processed, highly palatable carbohydrates and sugar. Every time.

Andrea: We talk a lot about diet culture at WarriorBabe. And this is going into diet culture again. Diet culture was all about fat-free, and now it's turning protein, which actually is better than fat-free, into that same diet culture. There's always an edge where they try to take everything to the extreme, and it's confusing. We're trying to bring it back to, where's your balance? How do you bring whole foods back in there? How do you make it clear to people?

Nikkiey: There's always got to be a villain in the fitness industry, I feel like. They do this to themselves.

Maggie: But also, playing the devil's advocate again, when people think they're eating whole foods or clean, they think that's a free pass, and they overconsume. How many people have you heard say, I eat clean and I just can't lose weight? Because they think if they're eating clean, they can just eat and eat and eat. My son in college gained 12 pounds on nuts, because he's trying to gain muscle on nuts. And I said, you didn't even eat the cake? He said, no, Mom. That's the worst way to gain weight, on the healthy food.

Andrea: That, or they don't eat enough of it, too. There are people who overconsume, and there are people who have the salad for lunch and then have nothing for dinner. So it goes both ways. And understanding macros, understanding that at some point in your life you're going to need to track, because looking at what you're eating is not a villain either. That's what I'm getting tired of on social media right now, people saying, I don't track or count calories. Well, you probably did it sometime in your life, which a lot of people need to do. You've been in the industry 30 years. Great. But this person who knows nothing can't just intuitively eat when they've been under-eating for years and have a poor food relationship. You have to start somewhere with some foundational things.

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Maggie: For sure, you also need to be willing to change, because if you want to change where you are now, you can't keep doing the same thing you've been doing over and over again. I tell my friend, just do one day. It is eye-opening to see what you eat. She says, uh-uh. I'm like, one day. Just do it one time.

Nikkiey: Quick break. If you're finding this episode helpful so far, it would mean a lot if you could hit pause for just a second, leave a quick rating or a review, or share it with someone who could benefit from it. Your support helps more women discover these tools to build muscle, lose fat and feel confident. Thank you so much for being a part of this journey with me.

Really quick, though, back on that protein part, I have a question for you guys. Can you overconsume protein in one meal?

Andrea: No.

Nikkiey: Explain. Elaborate.

Andrea: Your body's going to stop you. It's really, really hard to overeat protein. If this is some ridiculous one-off situation and someone's going to have 400 grams of protein because they're in a steak-eating contest, yeah, that's not going to be great for you. Let's be real. It's not all used to build muscle. But if you're eating whole food protein, it'll digest slower. So your body's eventually going to use it, because it takes maybe eight or nine hours to digest this huge meal you had. But if someone's having, say, four protein shakes or something weird, that's not going to keep you full for hours. I'll go to Cava and have a thousand-calorie bowl that has 75 grams of protein, and I don't think anything of it, because it meets my protein goals and it's whole food.

Maggie: Most of the studies just stopped at four hours. That's why for so long they said you can't absorb more than 30 grams, because the study stopped then. I wish I had that study in front of me. I apologize, I don't have it. But they went 24 hours, and at a lesser rate, your body continued to use it. So studies are showing that if you go long enough, your body continues to use it. So please, everybody, do not be afraid of eating enough protein or too much protein.

Andrea: Exactly. And a meal that's more than 300 calories, sometimes. I was so scared to eat more than 300 calories. I thought, I don't want to get fat. Well, now I sometimes eat a thousand-calorie meal because of my energy needs. I need that for my body.

Maggie: Well, let's not forget the thermic effect either.

Nikkiey: Go ahead, Maggie. Preach to that part.

Maggie: We all know the macros. Protein is four calories, carbs are four calories, fats are nine calories. Protein is actually more like two to three calories, about 2.5, because of the thermic effect of food. It takes so much more energy for your body to digest that protein. So it's a really high-quality food that's going to put your body to work, and calorically, it's a smart choice because of that.

Andrea: I feel like when that's explained, it's the biggest selling point for women. They all want to burn calories. Okay, cool. Go eat your protein and you're going to be burning calories while you digest it. And you're going to stay full. Nobody wants to be hungry.

Nikkiey: Yeah. At the end of the day, when you have enough of the protein your body is looking for and needs, you won't be craving shit at the end of the day. Period.

So there are actually two questions we got asked that go with this, and I want to keep it here before we go to another trend. The first question was, is it better to hit your protein goal or stay within your calorie goal if you can't do both?

Maggie: Well, it depends on what your goal is.

Andrea: I was going to say, if you're in a cut phase, you have to be pretty on point with your cutting calories. If you keep going over your cutting calories, you're not going to be losing the fat you want. But I would say in maintenance or if you're in a build phase, just go for the protein and listen to your hunger cues. It's not as important calorie-wise to be so specific, but a cut is a different thing.

Maggie: If your goal is to lose weight and lose fat, though, in the big picture you still need to keep that muscle no matter what you're doing. You've got to keep the muscle.

Nikkiey: So I kind of go between both of you. I agree with both of what you're saying, but more in the middle. I think about bodybuilding, I think about a cut. As you're losing fat and weight, you're tapping into muscle as well. It's just how it works. So to make sure you're maintaining it, like you're saying, Maggie, if I'm going to cut, I'm going to push my protein intake to 1.1 or 1.2, going over the normal broad recommendation of a gram per pound of body weight, because I don't want to sacrifice muscle tissue. If there's any one macro to go over on, it would be protein.

The second question is, are protein coffees actually beneficial, or are they just another wellness trend? And does sipping on them throughout the day constantly elevate insulin levels?

Maggie: Yes, it does. I have so much to say about that.

Nikkiey: The floor is yours.

Maggie: Which angle shall I take?

Nikkiey: Whichever one you think is going to resonate the most.

Andrea: The insulin levels, Maggie. Do the insulin levels.

Nikkiey: Yeah, I'm curious about your insulin take.

Maggie: All right. The average person opens their mouth and ingests either food or drink 27 times a day. Every time that happens, you get an insulin response, whether it's high or low. Insulin is a fat storage hormone, which it's supposed to be. That doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing, but if you're trying to lose fat, why would you stimulate more insulin 27 times a day? Why would you do that? Even if you love your protein coffee.

Nikkiey: Nobody can see me, but I'm doing the clocking thing. That's the trend. What generation is it? Gen Z? We're older. Older generations are not supposed to copy it. Well, I'm clocking what you're saying, Maggie.

Maggie: So where was I? Oh, now I want to get into mitochondria. You need periods during the day when your insulin levels come down. Then your body can switch fuel sources, and it can use fat for fuel once you burn through the glucose in your system and there's no need for insulin, because you're not ingesting glucose. That's why you need insulin, to take care of your glucose.

So if you let it come down, you burn through it. It's been two to three hours, you didn't overconsume glucose, and your body can then tap into fat stores and use fat for energy. When it uses fat for energy, it produces ketones. Your body feels great on ketones. Your mind is clear. The brain fog goes away. Also, when you get to that point, your body can go into a state of autophagy, which is getting rid of old cells, which we have a problem doing as we get older. So you want more cell turnover. You've got to bring down that glucose to allow that to happen, because mitochondria are what's going to keep you young. They keep your body recovering. That's what keeps your skin vibrant. You need new, fresh mitochondria and not the senescent cells floating around in your body. So that went everywhere, but that's why.

Nikkiey: Would you suggest someone just drink the protein coffee in the morning if they love their protein coffee?

Maggie: Yes. If you love it. And we could get into the weeds about what the heck Starbucks is putting in their protein.

Nikkiey: I think someone actually looked, and it was okay, wasn't it?

Maggie: No, I heard it was absolutely terrible, and people's digestive systems were totally wrecked afterward. If you're at home, you know what protein is being used and that it's a good protein source. Drink it up. Maybe do it in a half hour or 45 minutes, and then let your body recover. Let your body absorb. Let your glucose come down, go for your walk, move on with your day, but go three or four hours. Let your glucose clear from your system without calling on more insulin. You don't need more insulin flowing through your body all day long.

Andrea: And not everything needs protein. If you did track your food, you might realize, wow, I don't need protein in my coffee. I can have it at these other times. So knowing that too.

Nikkiey: Because if you don't need it right then, that's going to bring up your calories by at least, I don't know, a hundred in your coffee, and maybe you're not accounting for the extra. If you do that twice a day, that's 200 extra calories a day. That's the difference between being in a cut, being in a surplus or being at maintenance.

Andrea: Point proven here.

Nikkiey: And they're also asking if it's actually beneficial or if it's a wellness trend. I would say if it's part of the way you like to get your protein in during the day, then go ahead and get your protein in, especially if you're not getting in your protein.

Andrea: Yeah. Especially if it's hard for you to get it in by eating throughout the day, or by having the meats or whatever. Then do it, for sure.

Maggie: But do it and be done with it. Have it in the morning and be done with it.

Andrea: I can't drink caffeine after one o'clock, except for this. Otherwise I'd be over here drinking it all day. I can tell at night my sleep is affected. I have the HRV on my watch, and I'm like, this makes sense. And once you understand, don't worry about trends. What is your body telling you? Then understand, hey, maybe I need to do something different. For me, that was eating before I drank coffee and stopping caffeine by one or two most days.

Maggie: You just said something crucial. Don't worry about trends. Here's the thing. For the average woman, especially my age, a lot of them aren't on social media a lot. They don't understand what a trend is. They think if they've heard it 10 times today, it must be true. In their head, it's not a trend. It's true, because they heard it 10 times. So that's frustrating. That's sad that that information is out there and it's believable because they heard it so many times.

Nikkiey: It frustrates the hell out of me. It's literally just the basics, y'all.

Andrea: Does that mean if I say it 10 times, people will believe it?

Nikkiey: It's just the basics. Do the basics. Get your protein in. Walk. Get sleep, seven to eight hours a night. Drink your water. The basics.

Maggie: That's boring.

Nikkiey: I got it. It doesn't get clicks.

Maggie: Does not get clicks.

Nikkiey: I just recorded that as a podcast on Monday, I believe, when I went live, about the boring stuff. Because there are people inside WarriorBabe who go to their coach after two weeks and say, I want a new workout program. And I had to talk about how you build muscle by keeping your body adapting through the workout program you're doing for six to eight weeks. If you're changing it up every two weeks, or you're finding a new Pinterest workout or whatever, your body isn't getting time to be properly stimulated by the exercise or the movement.

You're also not able to develop a good skill or actually get the technique down for the movement if you're changing it up every single day. And how do you even know you're progressing? If you're changing the exercises every two to three weeks, how do you know you actually lifted heavier weights? How do you know you actually got attuned to the movement? So it's doing the boring work, doing the basics.

Maggie: So I just do the boring work over and over again. A girl told me at the gym yesterday, I'm just going to follow you around and see what you do. And I said, well, what I do today, I'll be doing 10 weeks from now. I stay in a program 10 weeks, because I like to see week one versus week 10. That's my minimum. I'm usually at 10 weeks, and then I'll switch it up.

Andrea: Once you have the muscle, it's easier to keep the muscle with more variety. People who have lost muscle over 40 need to build it back, and that's what we're trying to help them do at WarriorBabe: build it as efficiently and as fast as possible, and then add the variety back. Because everybody loves social media, with a different workout every single day and fun new moves, but hey, you guys have to build the muscle first.

Nikkiey: So there was another question around protein, where somebody asked whether they should have amino acids or protein as supplements. The question was basically, this is really confusing. I don't know if I should eat protein and drink protein, but also have amino acids throughout the day. What's your take on that?

Andrea: I like to keep it simple for myself. Especially if you're a newbie just trying to lose some fat and build some muscle, focus on whole food protein first. What do you think, Maggie?

Maggie: I think for some people, especially women who are trying to bring up their calories and get their protein in, like the cute little gal I met at the gym the other day, it helps. She was probably getting seven or 800 calories a day. Her protein is probably 30 grams. She's having a really hard time eating enough food to get her protein in, so something like a good amino acid supplement is going to be very helpful for her.

Also for people who have really tough goals, like you really want to put on a ton of muscle, add some amino acids in. But you don't need to unless there's a reason for it. If you're not hitting your protein, I think that's a good reason to add amino acids. Of course, getting them from whole foods is our ultimate goal. We want that.

Andrea: And understanding their workouts. A lot of women's workouts will never make them build muscle. So they need to realize they've got to change their workout routine. It's not just about the protein. They say, I'm eating all my protein and I'm not building muscle. Well, you're not doing any progressive overload.

Maggie: Well, here's another thing too. They say, no, I'm eating protein. They don't realize they might be getting collagen. They're not getting a full spectrum of amino acids. So sometimes amino acids can fill the gap in a knowledge situation. They think they're getting enough protein, but they're not. So if you give them amino acids, we know they're getting a full spectrum of amino acids from somewhere.

Nikkiey: Would you do amino acids or essential amino acids?

Maggie: Essential. Not branched-chain. EAAs.

Nikkiey: Yeah. I don't even know why we even make branched-chain amino acids. Why?

Andrea: To make you spend money.

Nikkiey: I agree. Everyone, just lean away from the branched-chain amino acids and go for EAAs.

Maggie: Yeah. Essential amino acids. You want those nine essentials, the ones your body will not make. You have to ingest them. Your body will make the other 11, but it will not make the essential amino acids. So you've got to get them.

Nikkiey: 100%. There's one more question on protein, and then I think I'm going to pivot away from protein. It goes back to what we were debunking when we were talking about the protein trend. If someone feels sluggish eating the appropriate amount of protein, what should they do? Like they feel sluggish after every meal, or just sluggish during the day.

Andrea: My first question would be, how much are you actually moving? How much are you working out? How much training and walking are you getting in? If you're eating 1,900 or 2,000 calories but you're not putting that food to use in some way, then yeah, that's going to make you feel sluggish.

Maggie: And especially if you made a huge jump. If you were only getting 60 and all of a sudden you're getting double that, 120, your digestive system is not used to that. So you probably need to work your way up to it. They probably have some digestive issues, I would assume. I'd have more questions for this person to give them a good answer.

Andrea: Same.

Nikkiey: All right. Let's do one more question and then we'll do this or that, because I think we're going to have a good time with this or that. Maybe we'll do two more, because, Maggie, I'm interested in this one. Somebody asked, how do you know whether TRT is right for you, and how much is typically recommended?

Maggie: You've got to get your labs. Luckily, testosterone, especially in perimenopause, is going to ebb and flow, but not as much as the other hormones. It tends to be a bit more even. And just like with men, and they're asking about women here, it starts to decrease at 25. Testosterone is a slower decrease. So for most women, testosterone is where they're going to see their first dip, at their youngest.

Many women don't realize it, because it's measured differently, so the numbers show up lower. They don't realize that they actually have more testosterone than estrogen. In their prime, testosterone is your driving hormone as a woman, and many women don't realize that. So when it starts to dip, you're not going to feel like yourself. So get some labs. Get tested.

When I got mine tested, I think I was 46 the first time. I think I was at around 25, and I can't remember exactly how it's measured, whether it's picograms or nanograms per deciliter, so I don't even want to use that. But the best range for me, where I feel my very best, is 150 to 200. But that's also balanced with your other hormones, because you want the symphony to work together. You don't want one hormone running the show. You have to watch the other ones too. So that's my overall take. A lot of times, testosterone should be the first thing women look at, because it's the first thing that really starts to drop.

Nikkiey: I can totally piggyback off that. I got my labs tested for the first time last year, when I was 35, because I felt like something was off. I didn't feel like myself, and I didn't have the energy I normally had. I didn't feel like I had the urge or the vitality to get through my day. I just felt like something was off. And getting my labs done brought to my attention that my testosterone was low. Like, low.

Maggie: And you were probably told you were normal. Were you told you were normal?

Nikkiey: No. I bypassed the PCP and went straight to functional medicine. I'm not on any TRT, because obviously I want to have kids, but I'm on support to help bring the levels back up, and they have come up. It's just been a slow process.

Maggie: To piggyback off this, the first thing that went for me was my thyroid. And I think it's those high-driving, type A women. That's where we're going to see it and feel it, because all of a sudden that drive is gone. You're like, where did I go? I don't even know who I am anymore. I can't get up in the morning. So when you get that back in check, you're like, oh, I'm back. Here I am. Huge difference.

Nikkiey: Yeah. I recommend everyone get their labs tested as early as their mid-thirties.

Okay, the last question we'll do before we go to this or that. The question was, do I need to eat every two to three hours to keep my metabolism going?

Andrea: No.

Nikkiey: Thank you. I was wondering what you guys were going to say.

Andrea: There's no research proving that's helpful. It's pretty much based on the individual. Where do you like eating? For me, I don't want to think about food for a while, so I like eating bigger meals less often. But some women who maybe can't get in enough calories or protein might do better with smaller meals more often for their digestion. So don't be afraid to try either one. What's going to work better for you and keep you on your plan?

Nikkiey: I would say meal timing can be really helpful to optimize your protein, especially if you need help making sure you're getting enough throughout the day. Getting an early start, then a mid-morning snack, then lunch, a mid-afternoon snack and then dinner will help you spread your protein out throughout the day. That's the only reason I would say to have a meal every three hours. But do you need to do that to keep your metabolism going? Absolutely not. Your metabolism isn't some mechanism that's ever going to go out.

This is something I had to reframe for myself, because about 10 years ago, when I was in bodybuilding, I was the coach telling everyone you had to make sure you were eating every two to three hours. And I will happily say now that what makes a really good coach is being open to learning more, taking feedback and growing in knowledge. You don't have to do that. Your metabolism isn't something that's going to just turn off in three hours. It's a process that doesn't stop. So do whatever works best for you, but you don't need to feel like you have to have a meal every three to four hours.

Maggie: I think the worst thing to do is eat a tiny meal, like maybe a 200-calorie breakfast, get busy, forget to eat and then not eat until 5. So based on your activity and lifestyle, if you're a busy individual, it's better to have meals that fit with that.

Nikkiey: All right. You guys ready for this or that?

Maggie: Let's do it.

Nikkiey: Okay. I'm going to rattle some things off and then we'll go back and forth. You blurt out your answer, and then you can go into why. If we all agree, great. But if there are any differences of opinion, let's talk it out. Okay, let's start with the first one. Add 10 pounds to the bar, or add two reps with perfect form?

Maggie: I'm going to say add two reps with perfect form.

Andrea: Perfect form. Because if they add 10 pounds and have crappy form, it's not going to do anything.

Nikkiey: Agree. Don't chase the pounds, guys. Don't be that guy in the gym who's trying to shrug an obnoxious amount of weight and looks absolutely stupid. Your form is the gold standard every day.

Okay. Say we each have 300 extra calories. Are you going to put more carbs around your workout, or are you going to save it for dessert at night?

Maggie: Workout.

Andrea: More carbs around my workout.

Nikkiey: Oh man, I'm going for dessert at night, y'all. I'm just imagining that. No, I'm sorry. I've got that sweet tooth.

Andrea: If I can just have a dessert around my workout, I think that's what I'd do. Eat more things throughout the day.

Nikkiey: What are you going to eat? Like protein ice cream right around your workout?

Andrea: All my treats are protein treats. I'm like the protein treat duper of the century.

Maggie: I like snacking on stuff in the afternoon, so it's very easy for me to accidentally eat 300 calories.

Nikkiey: Oh yeah, I have no problem with that. I do it frequently. Give me candy. Give me cake. I mean, I feel like shit afterward, and I don't do it all the time, but I love sweets.

Maggie: I still like the real thing. Real pie, real cake.

Andrea: Mine tastes pretty real. I'm pretty happy with it. Maybe I just don't remember what a real treat is like.

Nikkiey: You do have some great strategies for how you fit sweets in in a healthy way. I love your takes on Instagram.

Andrea: You've got to have that, right? Because it can't be all or nothing. You've got to have that in-between. My granddaughter just asked for my protein pancakes. She calls them panic cakes. She just started first grade, and I let her have some of my protein pancakes for the day. She had two huge pancakes and said, Grandma, will you make those for me? So I put them in baggies so she gets them before school.

Nikkiey: So cute. Okay. The next one is, never weigh yourself again, or never take a progress photo again?

Maggie: Never weigh yourself again.

Andrea: Never take a progress photo.

Maggie: Really? I can't tell you guys the last time I weighed myself. I don't even think I own a scale. My coach makes me do it, but she got mad at me because I hadn't done it in a month. I hate it. I don't care.

Nikkiey: Wait, I'm so intrigued, Andrea. Why never take the progress photo again? Did you just want to say something opposite?

Maggie: She's just trying to be controversial.

Andrea: Well, because once you grow the muscle, you're going to kind of look the same. I looked the same until I had the helicopter crash and had to gain it all back. But sometimes people get discouraged. They think they're always supposed to see something new in their progress photo, instead of being happy in a maintenance phase where there's no more progress. Not no more progress, but you're just going to look the same all the time, and the picture isn't going to show anything.

Nikkiey: So you feel like the scale does?

Andrea: Well, it's easy for me to under-eat. Look how fast I lost all that muscle in the helicopter crash. Very easy. So for me, the scale is like, hey, why is it dramatically going down? Or, hey, maybe I should eat less pie, because it's going up. I don't get obsessed with the scale, but it's an okay friend for me. I don't mind it.

Nikkiey: Oh, that's good. I like that take.

Andrea: Weighing a certain weight and then understanding the scale is 20 pounds heavier because of muscle is kind of cool to me. It's neat to reframe that and help people understand. It doesn't have to be a villain. Obviously the diet industry makes it a villain, but it doesn't have to be. You can use a smart scale the right way.

Maggie: And that's it. If I do stand on the scale, it's a smart scale, and I'm always looking at my muscle mass. It always tells me I'm dehydrated.

Andrea: We should compare our smart scale readings one day.

Nikkiey: Okay. A couple more, and these are going to be a mix between fitness and more personality. This one: have discipline with no motivation, or motivation with no discipline?

Andrea: Well, it'd be much happier to have motivation, but discipline is always going to win.

Maggie: Yeah. You have to have it.

Nikkiey: How I am every day is discipline with no motivation. I don't have motivation.

Andrea: Yeah. I feel like that 99% of the time.

Nikkiey: Okay. That one was interesting. I'm always going to pick discipline over motivation. Next: someone questions your work ethic, or someone questions your character. Which bothers you more?

Maggie: Character. Because that's in all things.

Andrea: Character. 100%. You come at me about my character and I'm going to shoot your head off. I may be lazy, but I am solid.

Nikkiey: Especially when you know the opposite is true from what the person's saying. I will be defensive. But then I've questioned my defensiveness. Maybe it's not good to be defensive, because if someone's questioning my character, I shouldn't have to say anything at all. Just let them think what they want to think.

Andrea: It's true. It's a hard one. Then that's not my person. Bye-bye.

Nikkiey: Are you somebody who needs to address conflict immediately, or do you take 24 hours before talking it out?

Maggie: Immediately, even though I know I need 24 hours. I don't want to think about it anymore.

Andrea: I like to ignore it and hope it goes away.

Nikkiey: Oh no, Andrea. Do not be that person who brushes it under the rug and never resolves it. Absolutely not.

Andrea: I was supposed to answer honestly.

Maggie: I appreciate your candor.

Nikkiey: I've learned that I'm the fixer. I will spaz out if I can't talk about it immediately and start fixing it immediately. However, I understand some people need space to process what happened. So if I can't get a resolution within 24 hours, I'm going to be like, you ready to talk about it? You ready to talk about it? You ready to talk about it?

Maggie: I'm the same. It'll drive me nuts. I will not sleep a wink till it's taken care of.

Nikkiey: Facts.

Andrea: I have no soul. I'll sleep fine.

Nikkiey: Okay. Those were good. Let me see if I can do something else like that. Now I'm curious, Andrea. Be right, or keep the relationship?

Andrea: I'll be right.

Maggie: Oh, she has no soul.

Andrea: Am I right? I'm just digging a deeper hole here.

Maggie: She really has no soul.

Nikkiey: What if you were genuinely wrong about something?

Andrea: If I was wrong, then yeah, I would admit it.

Maggie: I wanted her to say, I'm never wrong. That would have been it. Just keep it going.

Nikkiey: Okay. But if you're right, be right or keep the relationship?

Andrea: I felt like I was right about a certain person I haven't talked to in 10 years. I was right. I felt my feelings. I thought we were best friends. I reached out to her. She chose to keep going her own way. That's it then.

Nikkiey: I guess it depends on how the truth was packaged up.

Andrea: Yeah. You can't lower your own standards and be like, oh, I'm sorry. But I am thoughtful about it.

Maggie: I can see that. The way you're looking at it makes sense. If it's not a relationship worth keeping, then yeah. But if it's a valuable relationship, if it's a relationship that contributes to my life, I can throw my opinion out the door.

Nikkiey: I think that's a good add-on to the question. Is it a relationship worth working toward keeping? If it's a genuine relationship and you love and care about the person, sure. If not, and their standards don't align, then it doesn't matter.

Okay. One last one that we can end on, a coaching and fitness topic. Your coach tells you to eat more, or your coach tells you to train less. Which is harder to accept?

Andrea: Eating more.

Maggie: I think I struggle with this one. I don't know. Can I be in the middle? I love moving and exercise, so I'd rather keep training.

Nikkiey: I hate training less. I don't like the way I feel mentally.

Maggie: You've got your routine down. You don't want to give it up.

Nikkiey: Yeah. My rest days are hard for me. I struggle, because I like to get it done and then I feel better all day. Or if I know I have it to look forward to, it's a good break in my day if I do it later. So when I don't have that, when my coach tells me in show prep, no, I want your legs up, I don't want you moving, don't burn calories today, it's so hard for me. I at least want to go out in the sun and go on a walk. So I at least have to do that.

Andrea: Fair. So you're both saying if your coach tells you to train less, that's going to be harder for you to accept. My instinct would be, oh, I don't want to eat more.

Maggie: So you don't want to eat more, and you don't want to train less. Okay, cool. I'm right in the middle. I don't know which one.

Nikkiey: I don't want to train less. That is a hard one to end on.

Andrea: Sometimes they ask you to do both, and that's really hard. Eat more and train less.

Nikkiey: Eat more and train less. That's where I'm at right now. We're trying to put on a little bit of weight.

Maggie: That's our whole methodology.

Nikkiey: Yep. Trying to grow my lats.

Maggie: Well, you know what happens when you rest more. The muscle builds.

Nikkiey: I know. That's hard for me. It goes against everything I've done, my whole brain, my innate response.

Andrea: I think it's easier for me because I went from training six to seven days a week to training maybe three to four, max. So it wasn't hard for me to do, and it helped me dramatically.

Maggie: Yeah. That's too many days. These challenges that are six or seven days a week are insane. No one should have to do that to see results.

Nikkiey: No one should have to be training three times a day either. And it's still trending out there. Well, we've ended with the trend. The three-times-a-day one, the Something Hard. I'm not going to say it, but you know what I'm talking about. Two numbers and then Hard at the end.

Andrea: Fasted cardio in the morning, then you do your heavy lifting, then at night you have to walk an hour, and one of the workouts has to be outside.

Maggie: I don't count walking as a workout, though. That's time for me.

Andrea: I don't like moving, so I don't want to spend time on it.

Maggie: Oh, see, that's study time for me. I listen to a podcast and take notes on my phone. That's my me time.

Nikkiey: Okay, how about this to end it? To get your steps in, would you rather do 10K steps every single day, or a 30-minute cardio session?

Andrea: 30-minute cardio. Guess what I do now. I can't walk. It's bad.

Maggie: Fair. You have an understanding of that.

Andrea: My legs.

Maggie: No, yours makes sense. But for people who can walk, that's awesome. It's my downtime. Mentally, I like going and unplugging from the world for my walk.

Nikkiey: I think I'm in that boat as well. I don't really have 30-minute cardio sessions. I just do steps daily and make sure I hit anywhere from 8K. I don't go for 10K. I go for between 8K and 10K.

Andrea: My cardio sessions are intense, and they're like 12 minutes, and I fit them within my hour. Sprints are awesome. I love sprinting, and swimming, obviously. So I think finding that balance is important for women. Don't feel like you have to do something if it doesn't fit your lifestyle. What can you do? Don't worry about what you can't do. What can you do? Let's make that work.

Nikkiey: Well, ladies, this was fun. I had a great time chatting with you guys.

Maggie: Always fun.

Nikkiey: I love the way we answered some questions, did this or that and just had an overall conversation here. Should we tell everybody what we were talking about before? Because we left that as a cliffhanger. If they wanted to know, they had to stay to the end.

Maggie: That is up to me. How in depth do we want to go?

Andrea: That's too graphic.

Maggie: Are we going into pill placement? No, we're not. How about that? We were just talking about progesterone at the beginning of this, you guys, and the dosing I'm currently on and needing to figure out. And there may be a better method of absorption. Let's just say that.

Andrea: It does not have to pass through the liver.

Maggie: You can use your own imagination.

Nikkiey: I was just going to say that, Maggie. Use your own imagination. Anyway, thank you, listeners, for listening to this podcast today. If you're interested in learning more about WarriorBabe, go to warriorbabe.com and check out our website. See what we're all about, especially if you want to learn how to build more muscle, lose body fat and change your body composition when you're over 40 years old. That's our whole ecosystem of babes. So go check it out, and we hope to see you on the inside.

Hey, really quick before you go, I have one small favor to ask. If this episode brought you value or sparked something in you, take just a moment to hit that review button. Your rating and review make all the difference in helping more women discover the tools they need to transform their fitness and their confidence. It takes less than a minute, but it can change the path of someone else's journey. Thank you so much for leaving that review. I appreciate you so much. Thank you.