How to Start Tracking Food Without Feeling Overwhelmed

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Jordan: All these different places, all the populations have very different diets. And these are all in the top 10 longest living countries in the world. It's not the nutrition. They're not doing HIIT classes. They're not doing CrossFit. They're not doing Burn Boot Camp. The people who live the longest, among other things, walk the most. They walk. Now, the other aspect of it that I think is really important is they also have amazing work-life balance.

Nikkiey: What's going on, you guys? Welcome to The WarriorBabe Show. Today I have the incredible honor of hosting someone who truly needs no introduction. He's a powerhouse in the fitness industry. He's known for his no-BS approach, his razor-sharp wit, and the kind of wisdom that really only comes from years of relentless dedication to helping people transform their lives. He has records in powerlifting. He's Gary Vee's former personal trainer and the mastermind behind countless reshares on stories and mic-drop moments in the world of social media and the world of fitness and nutrition.

Beyond all of that, though, he's one of the most genuine, down-to-earth guys you will ever meet. I'm meeting him for the first time, but I've been following him on social media for years. I'm just super stoked to have him on the podcast today. Get ready for some laughs, guys, for some truths, for some no-BS moments, for some gold, because Jordan Syatt is in the house. Jordan, what's up?

Jordan: What is going on? That was a hell of an introduction. I sincerely appreciate it. Thank you.

Nikkiey: Dude, of course, man. This has been a long-awaited time that I've wanted you on the podcast, and I know there are so many people who are ecstatic to hear you right now.

Jordan: That's a lot of pressure. I'm just a short, bald, nerdy Jewish guy. There's really not much special, but I appreciate it. And if I can help at all, that makes me incredibly happy.

Nikkiey: Yeah, dude, that's why you are such an awesome human, for that exact comment right there. So you have built a massive reputation in the fitness space for cutting through the noise and delivering advice that's practical and also effective. I just love watching you on social media cut through all the BS. What's one myth that you wish people would stop believing, and why does it drive you nuts?

Jordan: Oh, there are so many. There could be a library filled with them. The one that pops immediately into my head is I fucking hate Athletic Greens. It's infuriating to me, not even because of Athletic Greens, but because of the nonsense people put themselves through and the justifications in their minds. They literally think they can have this powder and it's replacing eating fucking vegetables. It's absolutely infuriating.

And then the worst part is when I post about it, people will come in and say it makes all the difference in the world. And it's like, do you even know what's in it? It's worse than a multivitamin. It's not even as good as a multivitamin and you're paying like 50 times the price. So maybe it's placebo. Who knows? Maybe because you're dropping $100 a month on this shitty supplement, you're convincing yourself that it's making a big difference. Maybe you could just eat some fucking vegetables and actually feel better and see health improvements, as opposed to taking this disgusting powder that doesn't taste good. It doesn't have these miraculous benefits. That one really fires me up recently.

Nikkiey: Yeah, facts. I hear you so loud and clear. When people even just put it in their mouths, the majority hold their nose to try and drink it. It's gross.

Jordan: It is. I literally have them here. People think I just make this up. I try this stuff deliberately because I want to see. It makes me nauseous. It's disgusting. And you don't get as many benefits as you would from a standard multivitamin.

Nikkiey: Can you unpack that a little bit? What's the difference between what's in the greens and someone actually taking a multivitamin, or even just eating the vegetables?

Jordan: Yeah. Here's the way I put it. The best thing is just eating the vegetables. That's the best thing you can do, and it's better for your health. It's better for your wallet. It's overall better for everything. And a lot of people say, oh, I just don't like vegetables. If you want to go down that route, we can go down that route. Oh, fuck, my wife is texting me. I'm sorry. Even though I'm on Do Not Disturb.

We can go down the route of you don't like vegetables if you want to. But I always give this example. Let's say your child doesn't like doing homework, and they say, you know what, I'm just not going to do my homework. Tough shit, Charlie. You've got to do your fucking homework. It doesn't matter if you like it or not. It's like, I don't care if you don't like eating vegetables. Eat your fucking vegetables. Just do it. You're an adult. And if you want to be treated like an adult, then act like an adult. It's very simple.

There are also, now more than ever, so many resources to learn how to make vegetables taste better. There are YouTube searches and podcasts and free recipes all over Google. Go on ChatGPT: hey, tell me an easy way to make Brussels sprouts so they taste good. Give me 50 different recipes that use fewer than four ingredients and will make vegetables taste good. And ChatGPT will spit that shit out right in your palm. It's amazing. There's no excuse not to.

And even if none of that existed, not everything you eat should be orgasm-in-your-mouth good. Not everything needs to be the most miraculous meal and have the most amazing dopaminergic response. You can have things that don't necessarily taste great just because of their health benefits. And at other points in time, you can eat things just because they taste amazing, and that's fine too. But not everything has to be that.

Nikkiey: Amen. Love that. So you've worked with everybody in the fitness space. You've worked with normal individuals, and you've worked with Gary Vee and some big names. What would you say is one of the most surprising lessons you've learned about what truly drives success, regardless of who you're working with? What's one thing that stands out the most?

Jordan: The biggest thing, without question, and this isn't even just what I think, this is backed by the research very clearly: the technical term is self-efficacy. It's your belief in your own ability to succeed. That's the number one thing. If you believe that you are going to succeed, then you are infinitely more likely to succeed than someone who doesn't believe it's going to work.

The analogy I'll use is, if I told you that if you played the lottery today you had a 99% chance of winning, then you would go buy lottery tickets. You'd buy as many as you needed. If I said, hey, if you spent $10,000 on the lottery, you have a 99% chance of winning, even if you didn't have that money in the bank, you would borrow it. You'd find a way to get that money because you'd be like, I'm going to get millions of dollars. If I told you that you had a 10% or 20% chance of winning the lottery if you spent $10,000, it might not be worth it. And by the way, that's still a super high fucking chance of winning the lottery. But if I gave you a 10% chance, I don't know. It might not be worth it. I could lose $10,000 pretty easily.

If you believe that your success is inevitable, then it makes sense that you're going to try. You're going to put the effort in. You're going to spend time going to the grocery store, looking at the food labels. You're going to go to the gym. You're not just going to have the good days in the gym, you're going to be happy to go through the bad days in the gym, because you know it's going to be worth it because you're going to succeed no matter what. If you don't believe success is inevitable, then quitting becomes much easier.

This is where we see people all the time saying, oh, I failed over and over and over again. It's not that you failed. You just gave up too soon. There wasn't a failure. You just quit. If you didn't quit, you would have made much more progress. And I think one of the major issues here is that people will often only have one marker of success, which is their weight. So it's, well, if the weight isn't going down, then things must not be working. Okay, but what about your strength? What about your energy levels? What about your skin? What about your mood? What about your conditioning? What about your resting heart rate? There are so many different markers we could be measuring outside of just the scale. If you put all of your eggs in the scale basket, it's going to be very easy for you to say, well, it's just not working, even if you know how the scale works.

So that, for me, is without question the thing. Whether you're the richest person in the world or the poorest person in the world, whether you've got all the time in the world or no time in the world, if you believe it's going to work, you're far more likely to be successful.

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I love that so much, and especially the point you made about failure. You only fail by giving up. If you can learn from a mistake or a mishap and you have an opportunity to continue forward, that puts more belief behind the system of getting where you want to be.

To piggyback off that topic a little bit, we're approaching the new year. There are going to be so many people who dive in and say, oh, I want a quick fix, or I want to find the next fad diet. They're attached to what you said about the scale. They're attached to an outcome rather than focusing on sustainability, building habits, and the longevity and long game of a fitness journey, not a destination. What would you say to the people who are going to start this new year with that type of mindset? They're going in with an all-or-nothing mentality rather than, I just want to approach this with sustainability and learn how to have a successful journey. Does that make sense?

Jordan: Yeah, it makes total sense. The first question I ask is, how has that worked for you in the past? Most of these people have tried before, where they're like, all right, you know what? New year, new me. Shut the fuck up. It's not a new you. It's the same you. You're the same person. There's literally nothing different. All that can change is your choices. You're not new. Your decisions and your actions can change.

With that in mind, most of these people, for many years, have been like, all right, I'm going to go to the gym every day. I'm never going to have a carb again. It's like, good fucking luck. How well has that worked for you?

It's actually really funny, as a side note, but it will come back to this. If you look at the brain response of a gambling addict, the brain response they get from almost winning is nearly identical to the brain response they get from actually winning, which for me is very interesting. And I see people exemplifying this with crash diets. They'll say, oh yeah, when I did that juice cleanse, I lost like 30 pounds. And I ask, and then what happened? And they say, well, then I gained it back. It's crazy to me that they focus on how quickly they lost weight and completely skate over gaining it all back and more, and think, well, it must have worked, that must be what I need to do, because that's what happened when I lost the weight. But you gained it all back. And it's not because you're a failure. It's not because of anything other than that was a really shitty way to do it.

The goal isn't to lose the weight. The goal is to lose the weight and keep it off and continue improving. If you weren't able to keep it off, then the method you used sucked. Try another method.

So going back to New Year's and crash diets and going to the gym seven days a week, the other thing is that people have this false idea that they need to make drastic changes to see huge health improvements and make massive progress. And it's funny, because when I say, if you just get your steps in, if you just walk, that's going to make a huge difference, people literally don't believe me. They're like, walking? Really? And I'm like, motherfucker, let's look at the longest living societies in the world. We can look at Japan. We can look at France. We can look at Sweden. We can look at Italy. Greece. Among the top 10 longest living societies in the world, all these different places, all the populations have very different diets. And these are all in the top 10 longest living countries in the world. It's not the nutrition. They're not doing HIIT classes. They're not doing CrossFit. They're not doing Burn Boot Camp. The people who live the longest, among other things, walk the most. They walk.

Now, the other aspect that I think is really important is that they also have amazing work-life balance. Here in the West, grinding is life. Get up early, stay up late, take Adderall, just fucking grind, grind, make more money. Whereas they work to live. They don't live to work. They're fine taking off in the middle of the day to go have lunch with their family. They are much more relaxed, which is arguably the most important thing. I mean, they often smoke. They drink very frequently. And especially nowadays, we're seeing people say, I don't drink anymore. I'm glad you don't drink. That's fine. But let's also realize that people can do that and also live a very healthy life if they're doing it in moderation and if other things are in check.

So in terms of approaching the new year, and I've said this literally every year since I started making content in July of 2011, and before that with my in-person clients, it's making small changes. Get your steps in. Get your fucking steps in. That should be priority number one. I would say get your fiber in. Get your protein in. If you have a lot of excess weight, lose the weight. And by the way, a lot of that is going to come from just fucking walking. If you're walking 2,000 or 3,000 steps a day, up it. If you just increase to 6,000, 7,000, 8,000 steps a day, get more protein, get more fiber, and eat your vegetables instead of having Athletic Greens, all of a sudden you're going to start losing weight. You're going to feel way better and your health markers are going to improve.

Nikkiey: Facts. Yes. Thank you. This is so refreshing. You have such a big name in the fitness space, and this is what you speak about on your Instagram through and through. And you've got to love the comments you get. You handle it so honorably. But it's refreshing when it is literally just the basics. We've gotten so lost in the fitness space, going to the next trendy, flashy thing, Ozempic, or doing some ridiculous thing that could only harm people even more, rather than keeping it simple: sleep right, have low stress.

Jordan: Yeah.

Nikkiey: Go for 10K steps, whatever.

Jordan: It doesn't even need to be that. 7K is good enough. 8K is good enough. Whatever. Just up it from what you're doing now.

Nikkiey: Why do we get lost? Just a real, honest conversation. I feel like each year something new comes out that takes us further away from the basic principles of fitness.

Jordan: Yeah. There are so many different routes we can attack this from in terms of why it happened. And to be fair, it was happening before social media, in the same way that news happened before social media. But the news would come on and you'd watch it in the morning, maybe before work, and you'd watch it later when you were at home after work. Maybe you were reading the newspaper. But it wasn't in your face all day, every single day, nonstop, a truly limitless amount, boom, boom, boom, in your face.

And yes, there has been propaganda in the news for as long as the news has been around, but we've seen dramatic rises in it. As news has become in your face all the time, the pressure to make more and more money has risen, which means oftentimes they'll just make shit up and make these egregious claims to get more clicks, more eyes. Not only can it be in your face more, but now there's a greater amount of competition for it. So now it's, we need to say the craziest shit to get more clicks, because more clicks means more money. More clicks means more ad dollars are being spent with that company. Fewer clicks means we're not going to spend our money with you.

So even before social media, that was happening with news, and it was also happening with fitness. I remember my parents doing Nutrisystem, and I remember SnackWell's, the low-fat snacks in a green box. You remember those?

Nikkiey: Oh, the containers. Yeah.

Jordan: Yeah. They were these fat-free cookies. They were super high in sugar, but it was during the fat-free craze in the early 90s. And I remember my parents saying, as long as you don't eat fat, you're fine. And then Atkins came out, and they said, oh, so as long as you don't eat carbs, you're fine. So it was the same shit packaged differently. Instead of coming out on social media, it came out in books and in morning news cycles. Same stuff, but it wasn't as pervasive because we didn't have our phones in front of our faces all the time.

Now we've got our phones in front of our faces all the time. Competition has risen, and people are making egregious claims so they can stand out more. That's why I think it's becoming crazier and crazier. And that's the negative. But there are also positives. For example, I'll go to some very famous people's pages, like the Kardashians or whomever, and they'll be promoting some bullshit fitness product or some bullshit supplement. And the comments are people saying, this doesn't work, here's why, laws of thermodynamics, with thousands of likes and thousands of comments similar to that. And it's actually incredible, because you wouldn't see that before. Number one, you didn't have a comment section where people could chime in. And number two, we do have a much higher overall level of education than we did previously, and there's more awareness.

But like with everything, there are pros and cons. And unfortunately, we're going to continue to see new things come out year after year, because the people who make money off clicks and views always need to find something to create content around. That's why right now we're seeing huge trends toward carnivore. We're seeing huge trends toward raw milk. We're seeing huge trends around food dyes and seed oils. We're seeing all these trends because that's driving views and clicks right now. And ironically, it's completely politicized. You can tell people's political views based on what diet they're following or what they're promoting, which I think is honestly remarkably dangerous, when you're so tied into a belief that your nutrition is built off your politics and your politics is built off your nutrition. It's a really interesting world we're living in right now.

Nikkiey: First of all, I got tons of chills from some of the things you said, mainly on the positive side, people in the comments speaking up and saying, no, this is bullshit, this is not real, let's bring more awareness to these things that aren't good or aren't working or are just getting clicks. But it is crazy. I saw on Instagram that you lost views just by, not even sharing your political stance.

Jordan: Not views, lost followers.

Nikkiey: Sorry.

Jordan: I lost 5,000. I'll tell you, I don't care. I lost 5,000 followers because I follow Trump on Instagram.

Nikkiey: No way.

Jordan: Yeah. So what happened was the day after the election, and by the way, I also follow Biden. I follow my local officials. I follow many people. I don't only follow people I agree with. I follow people I disagree with, too. I follow people because I want to know what the fuck they're saying, to actually get an idea of what they're putting out.

At first I had a lot of people DM me asking, why do you follow Trump? Why do you follow Trump? And I said, because he was the president and he's going to be again. One person said, I just realized you follow Trump, so I'm unfollowing you. And I asked her, out of curiosity, are you going through the people you follow and checking who they follow to decide this? And she said, no, there's a big movement right now where people have been told to go to Trump's page and look at his followers, and the people you follow who follow him will show up first. And they're saying, go unfollow anyone who follows him. So I lost over 5,000 followers just because I follow the president-elect. It's insane. It's really crazy. And people wonder why we're so divided as a nation. Over half the country voted for the guy. How about we have conversations and try to figure out what's going on?

Nikkiey: Exactly. I'm down for opposing conversations, because if we have mutual respect around it, I can understand your view and you can understand mine. Cool. We can keep going on and be merry about our days. But yeah, same. I lost around 5,000 followers, too. It was pretty wild.

Jordan: Did you really?

Nikkiey: I'm dead serious. I can show you the decline.

Jordan: No, I believe you. That's insane. Is it because you follow Trump?

Nikkiey: It's also because I did share my views. This is the first election I actually got involved politically.

Jordan: Oh, good for you. That's awesome. What did you say?

Nikkiey: Well, one thing was women's rights. People were coming at me, because I did vote for Trump, saying, you're going to vote for someone who's taking away women's rights? And I said, he's not. It doesn't matter who is in the seat. It's at a state level. So if you have a problem with that, I said, we need to change this narrative, ladies.

Jordan: Yeah, you're 100% right. And by the way, you know who was a huge fan of doing exactly what the Supreme Court did? Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Nikkiey: Oh, no, I didn't know that.

Jordan: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is one of the greatest women of all time, and especially the left really likes to put her on a pedestal. She did so many amazing things. Ruth Bader Ginsburg wanted abortion decided at the state level. She didn't want it at a federal level, because there are many issues that come with that. A lot of these people really become one-issue voters, and they've been misled by the media to say they're stripping away women's rights.

I get a lot of women saying, Jordan, you have two daughters, and I live in Texas, how can you support something like this? I hope you're voting the right way to support women's rights. This is not stripping away women's rights. I understand it's very controversial and people get upset about it. But if that's what you've been told, then you're listening to media that is deliberately using incendiary language to get you angry so that you'll continue to watch them so they'll get more ad dollars. You are a tool for their money-making machine. It's not accurate.

And we can even see the media backtracking now. We're seeing MSNBC and CNN backtracking, now having meetings with Trump. Listen, if you called him Hitler and now you're having meetings with him, then clearly he's not Hitler. And as a Jew, it infuriates me when people call him, or anyone who's not Hitler, Hitler. To have the audacity to do that is outrageous. And unfortunately, what do you expect? The media calls the guy Hitler for eight years, and then the public gets really upset and thinks everyone must be Nazis. Or maybe you've been misled, and not everyone is a Nazi. Maybe most of us are middle-of-the-road, regular, everyday people who just want the best for our friends, our family and our loved ones. And we got tired of being lied to and being told that we're bad people. So that was a rant I wasn't expecting to go on.

Nikkiey: I know, me neither, to be honest, but it's all right. It's all good. It's what makes this podcast the best.

Jordan: Respect to you for openly sharing that. I love that. I think it's really smart.

Nikkiey: Thanks. I appreciate it. And this is why I love podcasting. You never know where the conversation is going to go, but I respect the conversation we just had about it. So let's bring it back.

Jordan: What would you say? What do you think? Do you agree or disagree with what I said?

Nikkiey: Oh, I agree 100%. I agree 1,000%. At the end of the day, it's about being educated on the right things, not buying into what the media is telling everybody and what's being pushed out there, but doing your own research on topics to gain your own understanding, and deciding if you believe it or not. And then also being okay if people have opposing views. Can you open up a dialogue where there's mutual respect, rather than, you're an idiot, or X, Y and Z? There's no room for discussion at that point.

Jordan: I agree 100%. I think the dialogue part is so important, and also the research part. A lot of people watch a 90-second TikTok or Reel and think that's research. They think that because someone can speak eloquently and put together what they claim as fact, now all of a sudden they're educated on a topic. This is Dunning-Kruger through and through, this idea that you must know things now because you saw this YouTube video, this TikTok, this Instagram post.

I think the best research you can do is talk to people with opposing points of view in a controlled and constructive dialogue. And what people forget about debates is that the goal of a debate isn't to win, and it's not to change the other person's mind. The goal of a debate is to find what you agree on. Find the common ground. When that is your goal, you'll find the vast majority of people agree on way more than they disagree. It's just much easier to become inflammatory and incendiary when you claim the other side is evil. And that's what our country has come to in the last eight years: whatever the other side is, it's evil. And by the way, that's the literal stated goal of propaganda, to dehumanize the other side and make it seem evil. If that's where your brain goes, that's a problem you need to address, and have real, open conversations that try to find the common ground.

Nikkiey: Yeah, 100%. Thank you for sharing your point of view on that. I appreciate hearing it as well.

Quick break. If you're finding this episode helpful so far, it would mean a lot if you could hit pause for just a second and leave a quick rating or review, or share it with someone who could benefit from it. Your support helps more women discover these tools to build muscle, lose fat and feel confident. Thank you so much for being part of this journey with me.

All right, let's bring it back to macros. What advice would you give someone who feels overwhelmed by the idea of tracking? From my perspective, macros are like a North Star. I don't expect someone who's just starting out in fitness to go track their protein, fats and carbs. They're immediately overwhelmed.

Jordan: Correct.

Nikkiey: So what advice would you give someone who may be feeling overwhelmed tracking their food when they're starting out, knowing that it's going to improve their relationship with food?

Jordan: Yeah. I look at tracking food as a progression, in the same way that I look at exercise. I'm not going to start someone brand new to exercise with a snatch-grip deficit deadlift with bands and chains. I'm going to start them with an elevated kettlebell deadlift, make sure they have the mobility and stability to get through it with good technique, and then progressively overload it, both in weight and in range, until eventually they can kettlebell deadlift from the floor. Then maybe they'll go to a sumo deadlift and then a conventional deadlift. And after a couple of years, maybe they'll be doing snatch-grip deadlifts from a deficit with bands and chains. But that takes a while.

If we use the snatch-grip deficit deadlift with bands as the ultimate, I would say intuitive eating is the ultimate in terms of what I'd eventually like people to get to, the highest level, most advanced form of eating. But that's really fucking hard to get to. Becoming an actual intuitive eater is very difficult, which is one of the things that infuriates me when people say, nope, you just need to start with intuitive eating. That's wildly stupid. That's like taking a 15-year-old kid who's never driven and saying, okay, for your driver's license test, we're going to put you in the Daytona 500. Are you out of your mind?

Nikkiey: That is a great analogy.

Jordan: It's crazy. So I think the best starting place, the first progression, is just writing down everything you eat. That's progression number one. You don't need to track the calories. You don't need to track protein, carbs, fats, fiber, none of it. I just want you to write down every meal, and you don't even have to write how much of it. Just cheeseburger, apple, whatever. I don't know who's eating those two together, but you write everything you eat down. You need to get in the habit of writing down everything you eat.

This is the base, base beginning for maybe someone who has a ton of weight to lose, 100-plus pounds, and who has no desire to spend time tracking. They hate every second of it. This is the real base beginner. They need to get in the habit of understanding that everything you eat needs to get tracked, the same way that with a budget, everything you spend and everything you bring in needs to be tracked. Sure, you could spend money on something and not track it, but your bank account still fucking knows that money isn't there. So if you have a donut, even if you're not proud of it, track that you ate the donut. Just write it down.

Then from there, and the timeframe can differ massively depending on the person, I'd say, all right, now let's start with calories. That's priority number one. You've already been writing it down, so now I just want you to start tracking your calories. You don't even need to hit a certain caloric number yet. Just start adding it up. It's just addition. Add up the calories of everything you're eating. It doesn't have to be perfect. You don't even need to weigh and measure it. You could just eyeball it. You could go on MyFitnessPal and choose whichever entry fits best. Just get a ballpark for where your calories might be.

I like this because when you first start driving, you're very often looking at your speedometer. You're trying to see how fast you're going, and you don't really know just by looking out the windshield. You need to see exactly what the speedometer says so you have a general gauge. But after a while, you don't need to look at the speedometer all the time to have a pretty good idea of how fast you're going. It becomes second nature. That's what I feel like calorie tracking is. At first you really need to track everything meticulously in order to understand how many calories you're eating. But after a certain amount of time, you don't need to be weighing and measuring. Eventually you'll just have a good idea.

So first, start with the calories. Then from there, I would bring in a scale. You've been tracking the calories of what you've been eating, so now let's track how much you're actually eating. We've been writing it down, we've been ballparking the calories, and now we're going to actually weigh your shit. And you're going to say, oh my God, I thought that was three ounces of chicken, and it was actually 12 ounces of chicken.

I vividly remember the first time I weighed chicken. I will never forget this. I was supposed to have three ounces of chicken. This was when I was being super restrictive, but I was just learning how it works. That's a real-life example. That was me. I was having 12 ounces of chicken when I thought I was having three. I was 18 years old. Which means I was having quadruple the calories and quadruple the protein without realizing it. It's like, oh, no fucking wonder. I'm not just genetically chubby. I'm just overeating compared to what I thought I was having.

So then I would actually weigh and measure it, which at the beginning is going to take a little extra time. Within a month, it's going to be a fraction of the time. It will literally take less than five minutes a day after a month of doing it. And from there, it's very easy to add in protein and fiber as well. So you track your calories, protein and fiber. Super easy. Once you've got the calories down and the weighing down, the information is already readily available, so you just add that in. And protein and fiber are really the most important things outside of calories, in my opinion. Carbs and fats can fall wherever you want as long as those are in check, especially from an overall health and fat loss perspective.

From there, if I'm working with someone who is a high-level athlete, and I use athlete relatively liberally, it could be someone who really likes to train. Maybe they're not even competing in anything, but they like to be a high-level trainee. Or it could be someone who actually is an athlete and is competing. It could be a bodybuilder, though I don't really work with bodybuilders at all. That's when I start to bring in macros, because that's when you really start to figure out what you feel better with. High carb, low fat? Low carb, high fat? Do I do better with a cycling approach on training days and rest days? If I'm having a long endurance run, maybe I'll do better with a higher carb intake and lower fat. If I'm lifting, maybe I change it.

Most people don't need to do that. But if someone is really interested in it, or they're a high-level trainee, it makes sense to start paying attention to that so you have a better idea of what fuels you best. I also think every personal trainer and nutrition coach should do that so they have the practical experience of going through it.

And after you've done that for a while, you'll probably be on a bit of the obsessive side. That's when I say, let's go more toward intuitive eating. That's the final boss we need to conquer. Now we need to track less. I want you to stop weighing and measuring. I want you to stop being so meticulous. I want you to get to a point where we can just sort of eyeball it and drive without checking the speedometer all the time. That's the general route I would take.

Nikkiey: Nice. And with the whole trajectory of how you get up to intuitive eating, people need to understand what food looks like, portion sizes, weighing things out, understanding what's on their plate. They can't just jump. Like you said, people want to start out eating intuitively, or they think they're eating healthier, but they can't just jump to intuitive eating, because it's like sending them into the Daytona race.

Jordan: It's crazy. It's insane. And it's been marketed as something any beginner can pick up. And oftentimes the people marketing it that way are people who have been obsessive with their calorie tracking, often to the point that they now have a disordered relationship with food. They have severe binge eating disorder, severe anorexia, bulimia, all these things. And they say, well, I just do intuitive eating now. Yeah, but you have fucking years of meticulous tracking. You don't need to track anymore in order to have an idea of how much you're eating. Of course you can do intuitive eating. You've literally gone through all of those other levels. Meanwhile, Carol, who needs to lose 75 pounds, hasn't tracked anything in her entire life, and you're telling her to eat whatever she feels like she needs to eat. Dear Lord. Even me, if I ate whatever I felt like, I'd be eating Papa John's pizza all the fucking time. Come on. It's ridiculous.

Nikkiey: Okay. I want to go back to the point where you mentioned tracking macros down to protein, fats and carbs for athletes or bodybuilders. Our demographic is women who are 45, 50 years old who want to be, dare I say the word, toned. They want to build more muscle, decrease body fat and show more strength at that level. Would you have somebody track macros to decrease body fat, or how would you approach that?

Jordan: What level are they at? Are they generally fit, but not at a bodybuilder level?

Nikkiey: They're all different. They come in all different shapes and sizes. There are people who need to lose 50 or 70 pounds, and people who just need to lose 10 pounds and decrease body fat. Our approach is to meet the human where they're at. We understand where they're at on the first onboarding call, and then we customize our program to what they need from there. But I'm curious about your approach with macros at those levels. Would you put that into the category of, okay, you want to decrease body fat, so you've got to really hone in on certain aspects?

Jordan: No. For me, from a purely fat loss perspective, it's calories, protein, fiber.

Nikkiey: Got it.

Jordan: As long as your calories are in check, it's physiologically impossible to gain fat, and you will lose fat. As long as your protein is in check, you'll be able to get stronger and build and maintain muscle. And as long as your fiber is in check, you're taking care of the most important health markers as well, from cholesterol to blood pressure and all of that. Carbs and fats at that point are going to be fine. I look at carbs and fats more from a performance perspective than a fat loss perspective, because as long as those other things are in check, fat loss is going to be fine no matter what.

If I get someone who's super Type A and they like having numbers and really enjoy that, like oftentimes when I work with finance people or accountants, they just love numbers and it makes sense to them, and they say, hey, I'd like to do my macros, cool, no problem. But if I get, I don't know, a busy mother who's working and has a lot of shit to take care of, I'm not giving you your macros. That's just extra shit to have to match together. How about just calories, protein, fiber? Just hit that. You're good, and it'll be totally fine.

Nikkiey: 100%. Totally agree with that. All right, let's bring it to that busy mom, the person who's on the go every single day. What are the most common mistakes you see people make when they try to balance this goal they want to accomplish with their everyday lives? How would you guide someone to make it more manageable? So you've got a busy mom, and she's struggling to just do everything.

Jordan: Yeah. Like you said, you've got to talk to the individual. For me, I'll usually go with the lowest-hanging fruit, or the thing they enjoy the most, as the one to start with. For most people, and I'd say especially women, it's walking. Ironically, for whatever it's worth, a lot of men like it too. They just haven't given it a shot yet and don't realize they actually enjoy it. You know, bro, you get out in the sun and walk, or even if you're not in the sun, maybe you're on a treadmill, you get a little sweat going, listen to a podcast, watch a YouTube video, and all of a sudden you feel really good after a 30-minute stroll. It doesn't even have to be an intense walk at all. Walking is just the easiest. It's the simplest. It has the greatest overall impact. And I think it's the gateway drug to everything else.

I used to start everyone with their nutrition. It would be, all right, if nothing else, let's just get your nutrition in check. The issue I found over many years is that if you start with nutrition, and I'm not saying it's wrong, for some people it's right, but for many people it's not the right choice at first, because you don't get immediate feedback. Someone who's in a deficit for a week doesn't immediately feel better. They're thinking, I'm a little more hungry, I'm more irritable, I'm not able to eat what I want to eat. And in a week, your weight could go up in a deficit. The scale could do any number of fucking things. So you're pissed and you feel like it's not working, even though it is, and you're not feeling any better.

Whereas if you just start walking, you go on a walk and immediately you feel better. No one has gone on a walk and felt worse. So you get the immediate benefits of exercise. Even if they don't lose any weight by the end of the week, they say, I do feel better, though. My resting heart rate is starting to improve. I'm noticing I enjoy the time outside. And they're almost always on their screens less because they're walking. Maybe they're catching up with friends or family. The walk is the gateway drug because you immediately feel better. And once you go on a walk, or once you do some form of exercise, for many people it now becomes, quote unquote, worth it to focus on their nutrition.

This is something I noticed with Gary Vaynerchuk. If he didn't do some form of fitness that day, his nutrition would be a shit show. But if he did something, even if it was just mobility work, all of a sudden in his mind it became worth it to eat well, to fuel that performance. Even if no sweat was broken, it was literally just a couple of exercises, a couple of mobility drills, maybe a little bit of walking, all of a sudden his nutrition was dialed. I think it's the worth-it aspect, but also you just feel better from exercising, so you want to fuel yourself as a result of it.

And whether we want to call it depression or just normal human emotions, when you exercise, you pull yourself out of at least a depressive state. You immediately feel better, always, no matter what. And when you feel better, everything else is easier to do. So for me, let's just start with exercise. Let's start with walking. If you like lifting, we'll do lifting. If you like walking, we'll do walking. If you want to do some HIIT, cool, I don't give a shit, let's do some HIIT. Let's just get you doing something, and then the other things will stack on top.

Nikkiey: Love that. Fitness isn't the same protocol for everybody. It's what that human needs right now that's going to make them the most successful in the long haul, whether that's starting with walking or doing some band workouts, and then they can graduate to doing some kettlebell work.

Jordan: Yeah.

Nikkiey: And then to doing some strength training.

Jordan: I think the ultimate goal of a coach, if we really look at this from a philosophical perspective, is to not let your client quit. If you don't let them quit, they're going to do really well. They're going to make progress. If they quit, then obviously it's done. It's over. And yes, they can come back and pick it up, and that's great. But for me, my ultimate failure is when a client quits. And I've failed many, many times. But when I changed my goal from get this person the optimal program to don't let them quit, oh my gosh, the success rate just absolutely skyrocketed. It's really incredible.

Nikkiey: Yeah, I totally agree with you on that one. It's a game changer when you can shift that. Because let's be real, it's not just about macros. It's not about nutrition. It's not about fitness. It's about where this individual is at mentally, and what limiting beliefs, stories and narratives they have going on in their head that also need attention, because that's going to get in the way of how they successfully implement the nutrition and the fitness. And more likely than not, it's going to be one of those stories or narratives that makes them quit.

Jordan: Correct.

Nikkiey: So if you can get super curious about where they're at, and then make the whole journey about that, working toward those incremental changes of shifting and changing the narrative, then they're most likely going to succeed. It's about what they need. They don't need the same template I gave to Cheryl. They need a new protocol specifically for them.

Jordan: Correct. I love that philosophy. I think people need to go rewind that like three minutes.

Nikkiey: That's what I just said, because there are definitely coaches listening to this as well. You are a strong advocate for strength training. Why do you think it's such an important part of overall health and fitness?

Jordan: Oh man, that could fill a library. I'll say this. The vast majority of my clients, just like your listeners, are women. And I think it's important for everybody. I think more men need to improve their mobility and more women need to improve their strength. Every time I go into a public gym, and to be fair it's changed a lot in the last 10 years, I see a lot of women on the cardio machines and a lot of men at the weights, and I think this should switch. We should see more men doing some cardio and mobility and more women lifting some weights. And again, ideally everyone should do everything. Everyone should improve their cardio, their strength and their mobility. Everyone should start doing some splits like you.

But it makes sense, because as humans we naturally gravitate toward the things we're good at. I think genetically men will often be predisposed to lifting weights. With higher testosterone levels, they're generally better at that, and they're not nearly as good at mobility or cardio. And women generally are more flexible and more mobile, and they have an easier time with things like yoga, Pilates and cardio. Not to mention the environmental component, where it can be intimidating going into a gym with all the men in the weights area, which I fully get as well. But based on human psychology and behavior, you like the things you're good at and you hate the things you suck at. So usually we see women gravitating away from strength training. But in the last 10 to 15 years, we're seeing a lot more of it, which has been wonderful.

Here's the thing. Especially since I've had two kids, and it doesn't matter girls or boys, but they happen to be girls, my real focus has been on not just living a long life, but living a high-quality long life. I hang out with family members who are women in their sixties, seventies and eighties who have not strength trained and have not taken care of their health. And then I have my co-coach in my program, Susan Niebergall. She was on the podcast last season, actually. She's a fucking savage. She's a beast. And she's the same age as many of the women in my family, and I see her frequently. When I tell you the difference in how a day goes for a woman who's 65 and strength trains versus a woman who's 65 and doesn't, it is absolutely insane.

It's based on just activities of daily living, being able to do things for herself comfortably, safely and confidently. If we really want to get into it, we could talk about the ability to defend yourself in a dangerous situation. Maybe not even against an attacker, but God forbid there's a fire. Are you able to get up and fucking run out of your house? Are you able to take care of yourself? And outside of that, just everyday life. Can you bend down and tie your shoes without pain? Can you get upstairs with no problem? If, God forbid, you fell, are your bones strong enough to withstand that? Over 70% of people who fall after the age of 60 are in a life-threatening situation, because they're going to break a bone, and that's how people die.

Nikkiey: It's wild. I spent nine years in healthcare. I worked in long-term care and then the emergency room.

Jordan: So you get it.

Nikkiey: Yeah. That's one reason I got into fitness, because I saw what life could be like if I didn't take care of myself.

Jordan: It's wild. I understand from a marketing and sales perspective that it's not as sexy. People just want to hear they're going to look better and get more toned and defined. And yeah, that too. But you also have a better chance of not dying, and a better chance of living an amazing, high-quality life with your kids and your grandkids. And if you don't have kids or grandkids, then volunteering, or just being self-sufficient on your own, so that if you fall over, you don't need to call 911. It's really scary, because I see it in real time in my life and you've seen it in yours.

And I think the coolest part is you don't need to spend hours in the gym to see these benefits. You could literally do one set per muscle group a week, just one set every week per muscle group, and you're going to be a completely different human in six months. It's insane. You don't need that much.

Nikkiey: Yep. People need to hear this more often. Thank you for bringing this, and thank you for doing the work you do, Jordan, because people need to hear this more often, rather than trying to get to an outcome quickly. Do something that's going to give you longevity, so you can be around longer and run around with your kids. This message is really important for people to hear and keep hearing. I'm hopeful the fitness space goes in the direction of the conversations we're having right now.

Jordan: I think it will. Realistically, there are pros and cons to everything, and we see some wild shit out there. But compared to when I first got into the industry, the overall level of knowledge has improved dramatically. But, playing my own devil's advocate here, we're seeing knowledge improve, but are we seeing health improve? When I was first talking about it, no one knew what a calorie deficit was. Now almost everybody fucking knows what a calorie deficit is. People understand how insulin works now. They understand these things on a level that you usually needed an undergraduate degree for, which is pretty cool. But you're still not fucking moving. You're still not exercising. What the fuck?

So that's my concern. Even with social media improving knowledge, we're still not seeing changes. We can look at alcohol consumption. We can look at smoking. People can have all the knowledge in the world, but right now there are many people going to buy their first pack of cigarettes. They're not even addicted yet. There's a skull and crossbones on it. They know it can cause cancer. The behavioral side is really what we need to make a difference in as an industry. That's why so much of my content is focused on the easiest, lowest-hanging fruit that's enjoyable, and making sure people know they can't fail, because the only way you fail is if you quit. That's it.

Nikkiey: Love that. I love what you're doing in the kids space, too.

Jordan: Oh, thank you. That was completely unexpected.

Nikkiey: You have a two-year-old.

Jordan: Yeah. She's a menace. And I love that girl. She's going to be dangerous.

Nikkiey: And what you started doing, jumping with her on your shoulders.

Jordan: Yeah. Oh, I'm super excited about that. Thank you. She's just the best. She's absolutely amazing. I was never part of the kids' YouTube space. I never watched kids' YouTube videos. And now, for the last two years, and we just had another girl, by the way, thank you, it's an amazing blessing, I'm seeing a lot of kids' YouTube channels.

At one point I thought, you know what, I'd really like it if, instead of just sitting down, she was being more active. So I started searching for things for her specifically. We already have her in gymnastics, which I think every parent should put their kids in. It's the most important thing from an athletic perspective. She's already in gymnastics and she's a fucking beast. She can hold onto things for like 15 seconds. She can hold her own weight. She can jump high and balance. She does the balance beam. She's two. It's insane.

Nikkiey: Oh yeah. She just jumped off the curb too, right?

Jordan: Yes. She jumps up and down. And my favorite part is that sometimes she eats shit. Sometimes she'll fall and just get right back up. She doesn't cry. Literally, she fell on her nose and had blood on it, and she just kept going. She doesn't care, which is really great for her, and great for her younger sister to see now.

And I remember thinking, maybe we could see something with dancing, because another group of people who are really impressive to me are dancers. Dancers have insane strength, insane mobility, insane body control, insane balance. So I started looking for kids' dancing videos, and we found one, and it was really bad. And not only was it bad, but it had millions of views.

Nikkiey: No way. What was bad about it?

Jordan: The production wasn't good. The interaction wasn't good. The audio wasn't good. Even the teacher wasn't where I thought it could be. And as a content creator, I think I have a much higher expectation. But also, who am I to decide? It has millions of views and the person doing it is clearly crushing it. But I thought it could still be done better. So I discussed it with my wife, and she said, I think that would be great. So I recently got into it, and it's been so fun to see not only the kids doing it, but now I have parents doing it with their kids.

Nikkiey: That's a positive impact, man.

Jordan: Yeah. It's really wonderful.

Nikkiey: What's your wife's job this week?

Jordan: Oh man. This week we'll say an underwater pizza delivery girl.

Nikkiey: That gets me hysterically laughing. It's so good.

Jordan: It's really funny, because whenever I bring it back and make up these jobs, there's always a fair number of people who don't know I'm making it up. The other day I said she was an underwater welder, and a bunch of people said, oh my gosh, that's really incredible, she must be in such good shape. And I was like, it's just a joke.

Nikkiey: Oh man, Jordan. Well, for the people who may have just learned who you are for the first time today, shout out your Instagram handle. It's all going to be in the description too, but shout out your Instagram handle and also the YouTube channel for kids, so we can help spread the word.

Jordan: You're incredibly kind. First, I'll say thank you for having me on. I sincerely appreciate it. And to everyone who's listening, you don't even need to follow me. You have everything you need here. This is an amazing resource you have. I think you're incredible, and I'd love to get to know you better. My Instagram is just @syattfitness, and the kids' YouTube channel is Workouts for Kids Official. If you search YouTube for workouts with Coach J, or the jungle workout, that's the first one we did that did really well. Where are you based?

Nikkiey: Philly.

Jordan: Oh, you're in Philly. You're East Coast. That's why we get along.

Nikkiey: Nice. You're from this area too, right?

Jordan: Yeah. I grew up in Massachusetts and I lived in New York for five years. My wife and I were just talking about this the other day. We went to a birthday party for one of our daughter's schoolmates, and the mom was from Philly. And my wife said, when people are from the East Coast, we just click. There's something about East Coast people where you just immediately click. So that makes a lot of sense.

Nikkiey: Oh, that's awesome. Jordan, getting to know you a little more on this episode, you're such a dope human. It's so cool to be able to speak with somebody I've followed for years. I genuinely appreciate your approach and your straightforwardness. You're no bullshit. You just say it how it is, and there needs to be more of that. Can you clone yourself?

Jordan: Well, I'll tell you what. We're building a new house right now, which is an incredible blessing, and I'm building out a podcast studio in the house. We're hopefully going to move there within the next eight to 12 weeks, and I would love to bring you out and have you come on the podcast when it's ready. I love podcasting. It's my favorite form of content, especially because I get to meet new people. I'm excited to do it in person, have a sit-down conversation and really get to hang out with the person. So when that's ready, I would love to bring you on mine, and we can have another great conversation.

Nikkiey: Thank you. That means the world to me. I appreciate that. I feel so privileged to have you on this podcast and to get to know you a little more. Thank you so much for your time. I look forward to connecting with you in the future and having a sit-down conversation. Just keep being you. The world needs more of you.

Jordan: Thank you so much.

Nikkiey: Thanks, Jordan.

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