How to Shift Your Identity So Fitness Habits Finally Stick

Nikkiey: Real quick, the only ask I could ever have of you guys is to help spread the word so we can help more women lose body fat, build muscle, reach their goals, and feel insanely confident. And the only way we can do that is if you rate, review, and share this podcast. So the single thing I ask you to do is leave a review. It will take you 10 seconds, and it will mean the absolute world to me and may change the world of someone else.

Mike: If I feel jealousy, if I feel anger, if I feel sadness, usually there's a belief behind it that is causing the emotion. So if I look at somebody in the gym and I'm like, damn, I'm really jealous, I wish I looked that way, that tells me that there's an underlying belief that I don't feel like I'm good enough for that.

Nikkiey: What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to The WarriorBabe Show. Today, guys, I am super stoked because we have Mike Milner back with us. If you didn't listen to the episode we recorded back in the early 100s, episode 101, I would highly recommend going back and listening to it, because today we're going to pick up where we last left off. We dove into the psychology of lasting change, and we're going to continue that conversation and explore new topics for you to take away, apply and integrate into your day-to-day fitness journey. So I'm just super stoked.

If you don't know who Mike is, he's a seasoned nutrition coach with over a decade of experience in this space. And like I was just telling him, his ability to articulate the concepts we talked about in episode 101 and address the psychological aspect of this journey, not just being like, oh cool, I want to get toned and I want to be fit, but getting down to the mindset of it. I'm really excited for him to come back and talk about all those things. So, Mike, it's great to have you back here.

Mike: Yeah, I'm excited to be back. Thank you so much for having me.

Nikkiey: Yeah, of course. All right, let's get right into it. I want to talk about habit formation, because I think that's really big when it comes to people starting their fitness journeys and finding it very difficult to shake bad habits, even when they know they're not good for them. They're so stuck in that energetic habit, that way of being, that way of showing up day to day. So from your perspective, why are those habits so difficult to break?

Mike: Yeah, so it's pretty straightforward that any change is really difficult, especially when we have things that have been reinforced and solidified over a long period of time. It's like when somebody recognizes a bad movement pattern. When you put somebody in the right posture, they're like, oh, that feels different, because they've been hunched over their desk for 30 years. That's not inconsequential. That is a significant amount of time reinforcing a bad pattern.

And it's the same with any habit. It's not like one day you woke up and started stress eating or emotional eating or whatever. There was a reason why it formed, and most of the time it's a survival-based mechanism. But over time, through childhood and into adulthood, maybe you're in your 40s and you're like, I really don't want to use food as a coping mechanism anymore, so I'm going to change this habit. But it's something that has been solidified into you, literally in the way your brain responds. There are certain neurons that connect that basically tell you, this is what we do when we're angry or sad or stressed.

The analogy I always use is riding a bike on a dirt path. The first time you do it, it doesn't really make much of a mark. But if you ride the same bike over the same dirt path thousands and thousands of times, there's going to be a pretty significant divot that just becomes the default. This is where your bike goes. And that's why it's so difficult to change, because now we're saying, all right, now that I have this awareness and I'm 40-something years old, or whatever your age is, I want to change this habit. That's really difficult. Change is uncomfortable in general, especially when it's something we've been doing our entire lives.

Nikkiey: Yeah, it's like what Joe Dispenza says: by midlife, 95% of our actions are habitual because they're subconsciously programmed in our brain. So basically we're acting from our subconscious for the majority of the day. With all of these habits, sometimes we don't even know we're doing them, but we're doing them. So, all right, we've got to change. I know change is hard, but how can we actually, intentionally change? How do we approach that type of routine? Building lasting habits often requires going through that uncomfortable period, but how can we build that into our routine? What are some actionable strategies to help people create lasting habits that actually stick?

Mike: Yeah. With the whole habit creation process, whether it's breaking a habit or instilling a new one, I think we oftentimes look at it from the behavioral side of things, and there is certainly an element of behavior change that's necessary. All habits are formed the same way: we've got the trigger, the action, and then the reward. But ultimately, I believe it starts with the psychological and the identity first. And I think sometimes we get that confused. It's like, if I just start doing it...

Let me use an example to make it more tangible. We often use the behavior of going to the gym. So I want to start the habit of working out. I haven't worked out in a long time, and change is scary, but I know working out is good for me, so I want to do it. I know why it's important to me. I want to be healthy, I want to be fit, I want to be strong. So I'm going to start going to the gym. A lot of times what people will do is look at the traditional habit creation advice, which is, all right, put out your gym clothes the night before. That way when you wake up in the morning, your clothes are ready to go. Make sure you set your alarm. Make sure it's in your phone and your calendar so you treat it like an appointment.

All those things are all well and good. But if we don't actually start with the identity of who you are, it's really easy to just say, I don't feel like it. Because there's no immediate consequence. If I wake up and skip the gym, I'll probably be like, damn, I really wish I went to the gym. But there's no actual immediate consequence. If I tell somebody, well, why don't you just skip work? They're like, well, if I skip work, I get fired. That is an immediate consequence to not doing something. But skipping the gym, there's no immediate consequence. There might be a long-term consequence, but our brain is really bad at predicting or feeling the long term and making it immediate.

It's the same thing with healthy habits. I can say, yes, I want to eat well, I want to eat mostly whole, nutritious foods, I want to take care of myself, and that's really important. I want to move my body, because when I'm 80 I want to be functional and capable and strong and still healthy. But that doesn't make it immediately relevant today. With this meal I'm about to eat, I can say, well, you know what, it's just one meal, I can have whatever I want, because it's not immediately impactful.

So the problem is we often start with the behaviors instead of the identity. If I were to ask somebody like yourself, why do you go to the gym? You'd be like, because that's just what I do. This is who I am. I go to the gym. It's part of my identity. If you ask somebody who is a fit individual, they almost have a hard time answering the question, because it's like, what do you mean, why do I go to the gym? I don't know, this is just what I do.

So we have to actually start with the identity piece. You need to be that person so that all of the behavioral stuff we learn about first actually connects, and you're not just going to wake up and be like, yeah, screw this. Because when you embody that person, you're not going to miss the gym.

Same thing with accountability, like having a workout partner. The reason somebody is 90% more likely to show up when they have an accountability partner is because now there's an immediate consequence. It's not just breaking a commitment to myself. Now I have somebody who's counting on me, and they're getting up at 6 a.m. and going to the gym, and I don't want to be that guy who stands them up. Now there's an immediate consequence. That's still behavioral. It's all helpful. All that stuff is great, and I'm not discounting it. What I'm saying is it needs to come after and during the identity piece of: this is who I am and who I want to become. I need to embody this person who is healthy and fit. And now those behaviors actually connect and last, because it's part of me.

Nikkiey: That just gave me the chills, because I love that concept: it's not about who I am now, it's about who am I becoming. And that brings me to my next question. I totally hear you. All the behavioral things are so freaking important, like laying out the clothes. It sounded like you were reciting a meme on Instagram, right? Those things are really freaking important, but we have to address the identity aspect first. So let's say this person has a really hard time trying to envision, I want to become this person, I need to start acting like this person right now. What would be some key takeaways to help that person start incorporating identity shifts in their day rather than behavior shifts? What are some identity shifts they could start doing day to day?

Mike: Yeah, the tricky part about this is there's no secret formula other than you have to find a way of being present with yourself and reflective with yourself. And I think that's one of the things so many people avoid, because the nature of our day-to-day lives is stressful. It's busy. We're distracted. We're constantly thinking about work and family and all these things. We have so much on our plate, and it takes away from the quiet time you have for yourself.

But that's really where all the growth happens. You have to identify and reflect on: who am I today? Who do I want to become? What are the characteristics, the qualities, the values of the version of me I aspire to be? And where am I coming up short? What are the things I'm currently doing that don't embody that person? What are the things I'm currently doing that do embody that person? You have to take inventory of where you're at. And a lot of people never get to that place of awareness because they don't spend that quiet time with themselves.

It can be journaling. It can be leaving voice notes to yourself. It can be walking alone without any distractions. You're not walking and listening to a podcast or an audiobook. You're literally just walking with yourself and being present, almost like a walking meditation. Whatever works for you, it's just finding that time for yourself. It doesn't have to be that long. You can get a lot done in 10 minutes of journaling. I've gone through different iterations. At certain points in my life, journaling was great. Now it's just not something I lean on very much because I have other ways, like the quiet walking. Sometimes I'll just go outside, sit in my back patio area, have some coffee and reflect. It doesn't have to be long. It can be 10 minutes. It can be five minutes. Something is better than nothing.

All we're doing is taking inventory of that identity piece: who we are, the things that future version of us embodies, the values and morals they have, and how we're currently aligning with that or disconnected from it. And then we start to chip away one by one. Now the behaviors actually become relevant. The future version of myself would never miss a commitment we made to ourselves, because that's something we hold dear to our heart. That is a high value for that future version. Okay. Well, when we make the commitment to meal prep, when we make the commitment to go to the gym, when we make the commitment to X, Y and Z, now we're going to follow through, because now I know this is immediately relevant to becoming the person I want to become. It's not just something abstract. I've made it tangible and relevant to me today to start becoming that person.

Nikkiey: So good. And I was about to say, you totally crossed the T and dotted the I on the objection people normally have when they hear, oh, I have to spend time sitting with myself and questioning who I am now, where I want to go, where my values align and where they don't, what habits or behaviors I'm doing now that the future person isn't doing or is doing. Sitting and taking the time out of the day to do that, people so easily don't see the importance in it. But it is so freaking important to find five minutes, 10 minutes to just sit with yourself and ask yourself these questions.

But here's a question for you, because I think this is what's sometimes hard for people: it can be uncomfortable. It can be uncomfortable questioning your current identity, where you are right now, how you look, feel and act, and how that's not in alignment with the future self and the things that have to change. That self-awareness is really important, but it can confront uncomfortable truths about yourself, your habits, your goals, your limitations. So why is it important to have uncomfortable conversations with yourself so you can create the real change you want in your fitness journey?

Mike: Well, you just mentioned it right there. You want change. You know you're capable of more. You have dreams or visions. You have something more that you want for yourself. And if not, then there's no reason to do the work. If you're like, I'm cool, I'm just going to ride this out where I am right now, and you're happy with that, then more power to you, and none of this is really relevant.

But the reason it's relevant is because we as humans are meant to grow and evolve and learn and adapt. We're not meant to be stagnant. And oftentimes that's what kills us, literally. If we're not growing, if we're not learning, if we're not changing and evolving, that can be pretty demoralizing mentally, emotionally, spiritually, whatever your thing is. And physically, obviously: if we're not moving and growing physically, that can destroy us as well. It's not an immediate threat. It's more death by a thousand paper cuts. But this is how we're designed. We are adaptation machines.

And that's the thing we love. We love autonomy, we love to learn and grow and connect, and all of that is there for a reason. Again, the root of it is all survival-based. But if you're a psychology fan and you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, once our base needs are met, like security and shelter, at the top of the pyramid is self-actualization. This is a core human desire we all have. And that's why it's important, because we know we're meant for more. We're capable of more.

There's been a lot of research done with people interviewed on their deathbeds, and the number one question is, what do you regret? And they all say the same thing. It's never, I regret doing this thing. It's always, I regret not doing this thing. That's the most common answer. I regret not trying. I regret not taking this risk. I regret not doing this thing I had the opportunity to do.

Even for me, when somebody asks what I regret at this point in my life: I had an opportunity to do a semester abroad in college, and I turned it down because I couldn't get credits for my major, so I would have had to stay an extra year in school. I missed out on the opportunity to go learn in Australia, experience another country and see another culture. And I was like, what the hell was I thinking? Why did that matter? So it's regretting something I didn't do. Everybody says the same thing. It's this core human desire we have for growth.

Even when you look at successful business owners, a lot of times they'll say the fear of not doing it was so much greater than the fear of failure. Taking the risk and starting the business was scary, but not doing it was dangerous. And I love that differential. Doing it was scary, but we can get over scary things. Not doing it was actually dangerous. That differentiator is huge, because when we remain stagnant, when we choose not to grow, that can be very dangerous. So that's why it's important, and that's why we need to take the time, have the uncomfortable conversations and face the uncomfortable truths about ourselves. I think any opportunity to learn about yourself is going to end up a net positive, even if it's uncomfortable to get there.

[Sponsor message]: Ladies, are you feeling frustrated with the body changes you're experiencing during menopause? It's time to take control. If you're between 45 and 65 years old and tired of struggling with body fat and muscle loss, WarriorBabe is here for you. At WarriorBabe, we've helped over 18,000 women just like you lose body fat, build toned muscle and understand their bodies better with personalized plans based on hormone and thyroid testing and more. Imagine knowing exactly what your body needs to see real results, and results that last. Don't wait anymore. Take charge of your health and join our community of strong, empowered women. Visit warriorbabe.com/apply today to start your transformation. That's warriorbabe.com/apply. All right, let's get back to the show.

Nikkiey: Oh my God, that was beautifully said, Mike. So beautifully said.

Mike: Thank you.

Nikkiey: Spot on. We all inherently want to grow, and we all seek growth. I think that's one thing I hear all the time: I just want to be able to grow. I want to grow my position. I want to grow myself. I want to learn about myself. I want to understand myself. I can personally relate to that right now. The journey I'm personally on right now is understanding myself a little bit more. So I really appreciate that insight. I think that's really important for everybody to understand. In order to change, we have to be uncomfortable with where we are in order to want to create the change.

And I love that: dangerous. You can be scared. You can be scared to go to the gym. You can be scared to start making different choices with your eating habits. But you can get over that. It's dangerous if you don't. Dangerous and detrimental to your health and your longevity, and to the diseases that could come of those things if you don't address the situation now. So that's awesome. And some of the things you mentioned, the ways people can approach these conversations or spend that time, like journaling, walking meditations, or just being with self, are really important so they can see what they're doing right now that is limiting them from feeling better, from getting enough sleep, from showing up in the gym, from eating right. What's limiting them right now, how can they change it, and how is that future self showing up? I love that entire concept.

Mike: It's a belief. When we ask those questions about ourselves, what we're also trying to extract is: what do I believe? What do I believe to be true? What do I believe about myself? You mentioned trying to learn about yourself, and that's really where it starts. The base of the pyramid of self-knowledge is what do I believe at this current point in time. And the way we explore that is usually not an easy answer. If I randomly ask somebody, hey, what do you believe? They'd be like, I don't know, what do you mean?

Nikkiey: Sparking up a random conversation.

Mike: They'd be like, get this guy away from me. But a lot of times our emotions are what reveal our beliefs, because the emotion is just how the belief is being displayed or manifested. If I feel jealousy, if I feel anger, if I feel sadness, usually there's a belief behind it that is causing the emotion. So if I look at somebody in the gym and I'm like, damn, I'm really jealous, I wish I looked that way, that tells me there's an underlying belief that I don't feel like I'm good enough for that. Otherwise I wouldn't be jealous. I'd just be like, good stuff, I see you're putting in hard work, props to you. But once there's that emotion that tells me, oh, I'm jealous, well, what does that say? What do I believe?

So when we're sitting in that quiet time with ourselves, it's investigating the emotional reactions we have. Things like anger, for example, are often a blanket emotion. It's hiding something underneath. So it's exploring that: what do I believe to be true that's causing this emotional reaction?

A lot of times that's connected directly with emotional eating. A lot of the clients we work with struggle with emotional eating, and it's getting to the core belief: what do I believe to be true that is creating this coping mechanism for uncomfortable emotions? A lot of times it's self-worth, or it's safety. It's like, I was in an unstable environment, so I believe chaos is around the corner at any time, and food is stable. I know it's always going to be there, and it's dependable.

So now we start to get to those beliefs, and that's where real change can happen, because we know the base level of the pyramid. Okay, I understand what my beliefs are. But are they actually serving me? Are these the beliefs I want to carry forward for the rest of my life, or do I want to rewrite those narratives? Most of the time we want to rewrite the narrative, because a lot of the beliefs are: I'm not good enough, I'm not lovable, I'm not worthy, I'm not safe, whatever the belief may be. And that's not super productive to the person we want to become. So it starts with rewriting that narrative, and that's how we get to actually changing the behaviors and the outlets we have to cope with those emotions, if that makes sense.

Nikkiey: Absolutely, 110%. It totally makes sense. It's about getting to the deeper layers of what the emotions are telling you so you can understand yourself at a deeper level, and then you can change the narrative, change the stories, change your beliefs. So, okay, let's say you get to that point with your clients. You've done this with them. They get to the point of understanding: oh, I'm jealous of this person in the gym because they look good, and deeper inside I believe I can't get that way or look that way. And I believe a lot of people feel like that. So in order to start rewriting the narrative and rewiring the tracks in our brain, what are some activities you would have those people do?

Mike: Yeah. The next step from there is to be extra curious with yourself. Be like a fifth grader. A fifth grader never takes anything at face value. I have three stepkids, and my 11-year-old will constantly ask: why is that? Why is that? Tell me more. What does that mean? Why do they do it that way? And I'm like, I don't know, that's just what we do. Why? They always want to know. So that's how you want to be. She's actually in sixth grade, but whatever. You want that curiosity you had when you were young. Where is that coming from? Is that true? Well, why? Who said that? Where did I first hear that? When did I first feel that way? Was that my voice? Was that somebody else's?

So we're really just being extra curious about the root. Is there any truth to it? Is it valid? Where did this come from? Why am I feeling this way? And a lot of times people will start to trace those things back and they'll be like, oh, that was actually my dad who said this thing to me that one time, and I internalized it. It wasn't even my voice. So ask that question when you hear, you're not good enough, or you could never be that way. Then it's like, that wasn't even my own voice. It was somebody else's voice. That's not even my own story. I internalized somebody else's story. When I was in high school, I had an English teacher who told me I wasn't a good writer, and I internalized that story. And then I was like, that wasn't even my story, and I've been believing it.

Nikkiey: I had my third grade teacher tell me I wasn't good at math.

Mike: Yeah. And then you probably confirmed it by staying away from math, because it was just something you weren't good at. And then the story took on a life of its own. And when you trace it back, you're like, that wasn't even me. That was somebody else, and I internalized their story. So, do I want to believe that? Is that helping me? Is that serving me? We get extra curious about everything surrounding that narrative. And then: what do I want the story to be? You can literally start to rewrite it whenever you feel ready, once you identify that this wasn't even your story.

The other thing is, there's a lot of evidence to the contrary. Do I have any proof of something? Are you proficient at your job? Well, okay, great. You're really good. You can achieve a high level of success. You can do these things you're saying you can't do. So now we have evidence to the contrary. We know it's not even your own story. It's not something that's serving you. All right, so what is the narrative you want to believe? And we literally start to rewrite it.

Nikkiey: That's so powerful. I love that. Okay, let's keep going down this trip.

Quick break. If you're finding this episode helpful so far, it would mean a lot if you could hit pause for just a second, leave a quick rating or review, or share it with someone who could benefit from it. Your support helps more women discover these tools to build muscle, lose fat and feel confident. Thank you so much for being a part of this journey with me.

This is such good stuff, by the way. I believe it's what a lot of people need to understand to get to the root of being able to create the lasting, ultimate change they want. It's not just about, yeah, I can lay out the clothes, I can put my water bottle out on the island and make sure it's full in the morning so I drink it, I can make sure the workout gets on my calendar. They have to embody, at an identity level, the person who is healthy, fit, working out, following through, keeping the commitments, keeping the promises, developing discipline to get the results they want.

So let's say I recognize, okay, I'm jealous of this person because this person looks this way, and I want to look that way, but I don't believe I can, because I don't believe I'm good enough, or because I saw my mom do all these dieting things when I was growing up, so I think things have to be really hard in order to achieve the body I want. Think about all the stories we as coaches have heard from our clients. So I start to understand this. I start to get curious. I start to ask questions. I start to understand that these aren't even my stories. Like you were just saying: my teacher told me this, my dad told me this, my mom is the one who was living this experience and I took it on. So I'm starting to change these things because I'm curious, because I know it's not my story, it's not my belief, it's not where I want to go.

Okay, cool. I'm starting to rewrite these things. Three months into my journey, or maybe even four to six weeks, and I'm stuck, because now I'm back in these emotions, these feelings. I'm here again, I'm feeling the jealousy, I'm feeling like I'm embodying my mom's experience again. What tips would you give somebody who's six weeks in and starts falling back into the old habits and old ways, and they're like, this is frustrating? What would you tell somebody to help them move through that?

Mike: Yeah, completely. The first thing, before you even embark on the journey, is to let them know ahead of time that that's going to happen. If you're expecting this to be smooth sailing, you're in the wrong place. If you don't think there are going to be setbacks or failures, you're in the wrong place. But here's the reframe: when those failures and setbacks happen, it's going to be the best thing for you. And the reason it's the best thing for you is that when you want something, you rarely ever get it without being tested. And typically there are going to be multiple tests along the way. Whatever your faith is, you can call it the universe, you can call it God, whatever you believe in, it's going to test that you actually want what you say you want. You're not just going to coast to the finish line.

And here's the really messed-up part: there actually is no finish line, because there's no point where you're like, I made it, I'm done, it's all good now. There's that saying where you climb to the peak of a mountain and then you look up and realize it's actually the base of the next mountain. Because I'm up here, now I can see further, and I can see that I'm capable of so much more.

But the reality is those failures and setbacks reveal that the shell you're getting rid of is still there. It's still part of you. And that's the test of how we handle it. People say, I want fitness to be a lifestyle. People say it all the time. But their actions say something totally different. I want this to be a lifestyle, but I don't want to start when I have a vacation. Well, it's not a lifestyle if you can't go on vacation. I want this to be a lifestyle, but maybe I should wait until January. Maybe I should wait until my schedule is less crazy. Maybe I should wait until the kids are back in school, whatever it may be. Oh, the summer is crazy. Oh, there are so many sports and fall activities. There's always something. So you're saying you want it to be a lifestyle, but you're waiting for the perfect moment. You either want it to be a lifestyle or you don't.

So again, you have to fully embody it, which means going through the setbacks, going through falling back into old patterns, to recognize this no longer serves me. When you're feeling stuck, it's because you have an expectation of how the results are supposed to play out, and you're doing this conditionally. I'm doing this because I want to see the scale go down. I'm doing this conditionally on seeing body composition changes, instead of doing it for the person I want to become.

This is the solidification. We're getting rid of all cognitive dissonance, where you're saying one thing but acting a different way, and we're literally bringing those two things together so you're saying and doing the same thing. That's difficult for a lot of people. So the friction of being stuck is literally your actions and your words no longer aligning, and we have to realign them. That's how we get through the feeling of stuckness.

It's like, I feel stuck because I'm not seeing progress on the scale. Are you only doing this conditionally? Because if you are, then number one, you don't actually want this to be a lifestyle. You don't actually want to be the fit, healthy individual you say you do. It's no longer about the identity. It's no longer about the lifestyle. It's literally about the scale. And that's why you're feeling stuck, because the scale's not moving and you're doing this conditionally. So this is the universe's test, or whatever you want to call it. This is the test and the benchmark along the way to see if you pass. Okay, now we have to realign. Let's get our words and our actions in the same place again.

And there are choices, by the way. I always tell people you have two choices. You can change your words to match your actions, or you can change your actions to match your words. Changing your words to match your actions would be: I actually don't want this to be a lifestyle. I'm only going to do this if I lose weight, and nothing else matters. Okay, fine. Just be honest, and we can align those things. Or you're going to change your actions to match your words and actually make it a lifestyle. Become the person you want to become.

Those moments are the friction points. That's where all the magic happens. Because if we can recognize that and still move forward on the path we want, then we're unstoppable. That's creating so much resilience and awareness. Yes, it's hard to change, so you will default back into old patterns. You will default back into old thoughts and old beliefs. It's having the tools to recognize it and then going through the process again: realigning, getting curious. Where is this coming from? Right, this is the old narrative. I don't like this narrative. I want the new narrative. And then moving forward from there.

Nikkiey: Dude, if I had a mic right now... I could push this one down, but you probably wouldn't hear my excitement. If I had a mic, I would drop it, because that was fucking pure fire. Everybody should rewind the last three to five minutes and listen to it over and over again until you can repeat those things back, because that means you fully understand what Mike just said. That is literally spot on, so much value, and that delivery. I freaking love that, Mike. That's huge. Man, that was so good. Fire.

Okay, so my favorite part was that the universe is going to retest your commitments over and over again. Are you being honest with what you're saying? Or are you just saying things because of circumstances, like the scale isn't moving, so I'm frustrated? Oh, cool, then it must not be a lifestyle. Let's just be honest with yourself. What are we actually trying to accomplish here? And if it's that, cool, then we'll stay there. But if it's actually the lifestyle you want, then these are the greater things you're being tested on to create the ultimate change you want and need to create in order to be the future you that you want to be.

Mike: Solid. Yeah. Solid.

Nikkiey: Back to what you said earlier: why do I go to the gym? It's literally just what I do. It's part of me. So for somebody who is so focused on the circumstantial aspect of it, just losing weight and getting on the scale, they say they want this, but they're just focused on that. They're focused on the wrong things, an aspect of their journey that isn't the ultimate, true end point they want to get to. Does that make sense?

Mike: It does. Yeah. I think a lot of times we make the mistake of thinking that doing more is going to equal more results. And that's where a lot of people get into the perfectionist trap. Again, it all comes back to those preexisting beliefs. I believe that if I just put in more effort and more output, I'm going to get more in return, which is not always true. So it's challenging that thought process. Why do you believe that to be true? And how has that served you in the past?

That's what good coaches do. They don't tell people. They just ask questions and get them to find their own answers. Why do you believe this? Why do you want this? Why do you think this is the case? And do you think it would be easier if we just focused on this one thing instead of the 17 things you're trying to hold yourself to? A lot of times it's getting people to do less when they're in that perfectionist mindset, focusing on the wrong things.

It's like, I'm pushing because I want the scale to go down, so I'm doing extra cardio on top of my 15,000 steps, on top of my perfect macros and all this stuff. And it's challenging that: okay, if that's not working, why do you think it's not working? Why do you think you have to do all of these things perfectly for the scale to go down? It's getting to the root cause of where this belief is coming from. At some point, this individual developed the thought process that if I just work harder and push more and always push the gas pedal, I'll get to where I want to be.

A lot of times it comes from parenting, or maybe a teacher or coach who pushed them really hard. Well, that's just what I always learned. Okay, well, how does that help? Let's translate it into another area of life. When you're driving, do you ever push the brake pedal? Or are you always on the gas as hard as you can? Do you go the speed limit, or do you go 30 miles over the speed limit? Where else can we draw the analogy that pushing for more is usually the thing that breaks the system? When we keep putting too much stress on the system, that's what breaks it.

So then it's bringing them back to what we can do to be more on pace toward where you want to get to. And again, realigning them with: what does this actually mean to you? How does this fit within your lifestyle? What's the ultimate end game for you? Is it really just 20 pounds? Is that all that matters? And again, if somebody is there, that's fine. But what I would say to them is, if that's your mindset and it's just about losing 20 pounds and nothing else, forewarning: you're not going to keep it off. Let's just be upfront about that. We can do this, and you can push as hard as you want. You can push the gas pedal. You can ignore your body. You can ignore the hunger. You can ignore the fatigue and all of that, and you'll get there, but you won't maintain it. As long as you're cool with that, I'm cool with that. Let's do it. Again, it's honesty.

But that's really the process for somebody who's focusing on the wrong things. We always try to ask those targeted questions to get them to come to their own conclusion. If this was going to work, it would have worked by now. And since it's not working, maybe there's a different approach. Maybe it feels a little softer than what they're used to, but that might be exactly what they...

Nikkiey: Yeah, that's spot on. I actually want to hold space for the fitness coaches, because I know there are fitness coaches listening to this podcast as well. I'm especially thinking about our team, and I'm sure your team, and even the new fitness coaches you're coaching. What I see is coaches take on the frustration. They take on the energy. They take on the experience. And then they start to experience the same thing, and we're all going down at that point, right? Instead of: okay, cool, you're having this experience. I hear you. I understand it. This is your perspective. This is your belief. I'm here in my own energy field. I'm not going to take on your experience, because then I won't be able to help solve it. So what are some open-ended questions you would ask a client in this situation that help lead the client to their own solution, rather than the coach saying, this is what you have to do?

Mike: Yeah. I love the why questions, or how has that served you in the past. Typically, if we're using the example of, I'm really frustrated because I'm doing everything perfectly and the scale isn't moving. Okay, great. Tell me more about that. What does that look like for you? What is doing everything perfectly? Now we get some more detail. Well, why do you think nothing's working? Okay, great. Why do you feel like you have to be so perfect with everything? It's always the why questions. How has that served you in the past?

Do you remember another time, in a similar situation, where this happened? I'll go to that pretty frequently. Oh, it seems like there might be a pattern. Are you noticing any trends where the times you push really hard are the times you feel the most stuck? Oh, well, now that you say it, yes, actually. So you just try to lead them to the conclusion.

Another one would be pulling from other areas. Where else has this shown up for you in your life? A lot of times we get so focused on fitness and forget that fitness, relationships, business, self-growth, all of it, it's all the same stuff. The same rules apply. It's just a different implementation, a different context, but the same rules. So maybe in your professional life, maybe in your family life, where else can you recall something like this happening? And a lot of times that's where they'll come to the conclusion of, oh, you know what, there was this one time this happened, and when I did this, I was able to feel a lot better.

People are intuitive if you just lead them there. You have to keep opening up more doors for them to explore. There are some good books on motivational interviewing that are helpful for coaches. But at the end of the day, if you just lead with why, and tell me more about that, and why, you'll be in a good spot. Just be curious. Genuine curiosity goes a long way for a coach. Why do you believe that? Why do you feel that way? Tell me more about that. The individual will ultimately pull out all the information you need to direct them.

Nikkiey: Amen. And it's definitely a parallel. If we're trying to figure out and learn about ourselves a little more, we ask the questions why, why, why in our own self-reflection moments to figure out how to change. And the same thing goes for coaches. Ask why this, why that. I like: well, let's unpack that. What does that mean to you? Those open-ended questions. And I really love what you just said. You ask these questions and it opens up doors for them to understand themselves a little more and ultimately get to the solution themselves, rather than the coach or somebody else telling them what to do. And like you said, all these things come together in life, fitness, business. It's all connected. But if you're able to help that person get to the solution themselves, that's where you can create the ultimate transformation, because they're experiencing it and they understand it, so they're going to be able to go create the change.

This is such good stuff. I'm so happy to have had you back on the podcast, Mike. Like I said, when we recorded the last episode, there was so much love around it, the topics you talked about and the insight you shared. It spread throughout the whole community at WarriorBabe and the coaches, and you had tons of downloads from that episode. So I'm really excited for this one to pop off. I think this is really important, and I really resonate with your message. It's not just about, here are your macros, here are your workouts, here's a workout plan, oh, here's a new fitness app, cool, let me go download it, and it's the 50th one I've tried. It's about creating not just behavioral change, but also identity change, and really getting to the person you want to become and how that person is acting right now.

Would you say that the connection point between where you are right now and who you want to become, the quickest way to integrate yourself into that person, is to start acting like that person right now?

Mike: Oh, completely. Yeah. It's the most powerful thing you can do for yourself. Be it until you see it. A lot of people say fake it till you make it, but that's a little misguided, because you don't have to fake it. If that's the version of you that you want, there's no fake. This is you. You're just not there yet. It's the future version of you, but it's still a version of you. So it's be it until you see it. Start acting as if. And then you'll realize a lot of the things you want happen a lot quicker than you imagined.

We lack patience, and we're really bad at predicting the future. Those are some of our flaws as humans. We all think we're really good at it: oh, I'm not going to like that thing a year from now. You have no idea. We're really bad at predicting future emotional states and how we'll feel about things in the future. So don't try to think about the timeline. Don't worry about the timeline. Things will feel like they're moving slowly in the moment, until you look back a year from now and you're like, I can't believe how much has changed since then. And the way to bridge the gap is exactly what you said: you start acting as if. Be it until you see it. And things will happen quicker than you can imagine.

Nikkiey: Yep. And you'll have little testing periods along the way, the universe saying, are you sure you really want this?

Mike: Yeah.

Nikkiey: Good stuff, Mike. Thank you so much for being on the podcast again and sharing your insights and wisdom on this topic. Like I said, I think it's really important for people to fully grasp that it's not just the physical attributes of what they want to see. They have to understand the internal world they're dealing with in order to create the ultimate transformation they want. Anything you want to share? What are you working on? How have you been since the last time we talked?

Mike: I appreciate it. I always enjoy our conversations. They're a lot of fun. I feel like we've helped a lot of people in the nutrition coaching space with that identity shift and have had a lot of amazing transformations. I've fortunately got an amazing team in place that is really aligned with my message and implements everything. And now I'm focused on helping other coaches. I'm trying to empower other nutrition coaches and fitness professionals with the tools they need to get their message across.

Because I know you have a ton of clients and a huge community and have done amazing things, but we're two people, two businesses. Imagine if we could replicate that and have 100,000 of us who can then serve all of those people. Just the amount of reach. That's more how I view it. A lot of this comes from my relationship with my grandfather, who was a huge influence on my life, and seeing what I call the ripple effect he had, impacting people's lives and then what they went on to do. When you're two layers deep, the reach goes to this astronomical place in terms of how many people you can help.

So a lot of my focus has been on helping other coaches with the skills they need to articulate their message, attract the right people, and just helping them do that. Really, it's to serve more people. I don't view it as competition. We all have the same mission. We're all on the same page, on the same team. And there are a lot of amazing coaches out there nobody knows exist, and they could help so many people if they just knew how to get their message out there. That's really what I've been focusing on lately.

Nikkiey: Dude, that's awesome, man. Celebrating you and congratulating you on that new adventure. It's really important. Like you just said, one person can't do it all. We need the team, and we need to be able to spread the word and positivity and make a positive impact for those who need the help. So that's awesome. Thank you so much for being on the show again. I appreciate you. I appreciate your insight. I appreciate your time. And go Philly.

Mike: Thanks so much for your time.

Nikkiey: Hey, really quick before you go, I have one small favor to ask. If this episode brought you value or sparked something in you, take just a moment to hit that review button. Your rating and review make all the difference in helping more women discover the tools they need to transform their fitness and their confidence. It takes less than a minute, but it can change the path of someone else's journey. Thank you so much for leaving that review. I appreciate you so much.